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Old 02-01-2008, 01:54 AM #1
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Need help with matching psi to fps...

I play at a indoor field and they only allow the fps to be around 230-250 fps... Everytime my fps is correct, my psi is only around 190 psi and if i raise it to the eos optimal psi (250-280 psi ) Im shooting too hot around (280-340 fps) I tried my dwell at 35 which alot of people recommend and i also tried to follow the manuel showing me how to set the dwell and i got 40!! which will make me shoot even hotter... I played around with the inserts but for some reason it did't change my psi at all?!?! What am I doing wrong? How do I up the psi with out uping the fps?

Thanks.
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Old 02-01-2008, 06:23 AM #2
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Swap the volume inserts.. pull the green and try the blue or silver. Your situation is exactly what they are for.. lower the fps while keeping the pressure up. The inserts do not change the PSI, they change the FPS (inserts are behind the regulator in the air flow, will not reflect on the reg guage). Get your pressure back up to 250 and get to a chrono and swap inserts while at the chrono.

Sean (or someone) will correct me if I am wrong.. The inserts keep the pressure high allowing for faster cycling and reduced drop off, but allow you to drop the FPS by reducing the air volume behind the bolt.

I think they went this approach to avoid using an LPR. From my Promaster days, I know balancing regs is a pain and touchy. Then you end up blowing another $70 for a better LPR, blow seals in your noid because you cranked it too high.. just one more thing to go wrong, good riddance.
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Old 02-01-2008, 08:30 AM #3
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joverly got it right however if u are using a low pressure tank anywhere from 190-210 is fine on the gage and 280 you will have a few problems and a horrible kick so that depends also
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:27 PM #4
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Originally Posted by joverly View Post
Swap the volume inserts.. pull the green and try the blue or silver. Your situation is exactly what they are for.. lower the fps while keeping the pressure up. The inserts do not change the PSI, they change the FPS (inserts are behind the regulator in the air flow, will not reflect on the reg guage). Get your pressure back up to 250 and get to a chrono and swap inserts while at the chrono.

Sean (or someone) will correct me if I am wrong.. The inserts keep the pressure high allowing for faster cycling and reduced drop off, but allow you to drop the FPS by reducing the air volume behind the bolt.

I think they went this approach to avoid using an LPR. From my Promaster days, I know balancing regs is a pain and touchy. Then you end up blowing another $70 for a better LPR, blow seals in your noid because you cranked it too high.. just one more thing to go wrong, good riddance.


Thanks! I hope you guys are right about the inserts changing fps instead of psi! I thought that way becoz i read a review and the guy said changing a insert droped his psi by 15... But when I did mine it did't drop the psi at all thats why im all confused..
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:37 PM #5
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oh yeah.. If im using my guy below the optimal psi does it just cost me to use more gas or does it also cause drop offs at rapid fire?
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:49 PM #6
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Less gas, but likely drop offs at high rates of fire. Probably that odd shot that rolls out of the barrel (or seems to). Never dropped my that far to tell you

I am assuming your marker is all stock with a hp hpa tank. Whomever you read prior regarding the inserts, was either completely mistaken or it was a typo (typed psi and meant fps). The fire chamber is AFTER the regulator, impossible for a change of inserts to be reflected on the regulator gauge. A 15 - 18fps drop is about what I see going from no insert to green, another 15 - 18 from green to silver.. (anyone else?)

I ordered a chrono, so I will have a more accurate gauge of the drops in fps and can play with it more. Can't hold everyone up at the field jacking with inserts. I would use the silver and dial in the reg to get you to 250fps. This way you can swap to green and be close to 270 (since a lot of fields seem to be going to 275fps)
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:02 PM #7
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I reread your post "(280-340 fps)" that is a major swing in fps. This was multiple shots on the chrono at the same time? Or a range after messing with the regulator?
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Old 02-01-2008, 06:52 PM #8
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I reread your post "(280-340 fps)" that is a major swing in fps. This was multiple shots on the chrono at the same time? Or a range after messing with the regulator?

I believe my marker was set to 260psi and first shot over the chrono was 296fps then i turn it down 10 psi and for some reason it shot even harder 340fps!! I think its not accurate if you only test it with one shot... So you suggest me change my inserts to silver.. Do I have to change the dwell again? Does the inserts affect the dwell?
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Old 02-01-2008, 07:45 PM #9
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I am running 35 dwell 13 rof (=16.82bps or something like that). Each marker is different, if 40 works for you, stick with it. ROF is just as important. Check out the warpig link (http://www.warpig.com/paintball/tech...arts/ion_calc/) it will give you a really good explation of dwell and rof. You won't have to mess with the dwell/rof if you change inserts.

Sounds like the chrono is jacked or you just got a bad reading. Your not shooting CO2 are you? (had to ask)
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Old 02-02-2008, 12:35 AM #10
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I am running 35 dwell 13 rof (=16.82bps or something like that). Each marker is different, if 40 works for you, stick with it. ROF is just as important. Check out the warpig link (http://www.warpig.com/paintball/tech...arts/ion_calc/) it will give you a really good explation of dwell and rof. You won't have to mess with the dwell/rof if you change inserts.

Sounds like the chrono is jacked or you just got a bad reading. Your not shooting CO2 are you? (had to ask)
Im using hpa. My dwell use to be 35 too.. that did't work so i follow the manuel and i got a full shot sound/bolt close at 25 click and then it told me to add another 15-20 clicks so im at 40 clicks right now.. I just got a feeling i will be shooting even hotter.. Higher the dwell means more power right?
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Old 02-02-2008, 09:43 AM #11
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I think you will be fine, considering out of the box it is at 52 clicks. It just means the noid is held open longer allowing more air to be released, it doesn't mean the air is flowing at a higher PSI than before. Too high and your wasting air, too low and your bolt doesn't cycle right, you get drop off. It's a balance. You want to get to the most effecient setting without any drop-off. Seriously though, read that link.. the more you know, the easier this gets.

Get it set and head to your local paintball shop (did you buy it online?), most will help you out as they want your business. Buy some paint or something to return the favor
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Old 02-02-2008, 03:27 PM #12
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I think you will be fine, considering out of the box it is at 52 clicks. It just means the noid is held open longer allowing more air to be released, it doesn't mean the air is flowing at a higher PSI than before. Too high and your wasting air, too low and your bolt doesn't cycle right, you get drop off. It's a balance. You want to get to the most effecient setting without any drop-off. Seriously though, read that link.. the more you know, the easier this gets.

Get it set and head to your local paintball shop (did you buy it online?), most will help you out as they want your business. Buy some paint or something to return the favor
I do understand how it works but im just hearing so many diffrent way to set the gun its confusing me... I did ask the guy i brought the gun from, He told me to first set the psi to the eos optimal then set the dwell untill i got a full sound blast then up the dwell one by one untill i meet the fps i want... But it clearly said in the manuel " Don't use dwell to set the fps" Im guessing the higher the dwell means more power to a certain extent after that its just a waste of air.. am i correct?
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Old 02-02-2008, 03:53 PM #13
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I do understand how it works but im just hearing so many diffrent way to set the gun its confusing me... But it clearly said in the manuel " Don't use dwell to set the fps" Im guessing the higher the dwell means more power to a certain extent after that its just a waste of air.. am i correct?
That's correct, the dwell is not for setting the FPS. As I said, the air is coming out the same speed regardless of how long the dwell keeps the noid open. Too short and you do not get enough air to push the ball and cycle the bolt, too long and you are wasting air. So it really only effects velocity if it is too short (might shoot fine one shot, next drops out the barrel) Stick with your 40 for now. What is your ROF set to? Your on the right track.. make sure your bolt is good and lubed with sleek. Good bore to paint match. You need to get in front of a chrono and mess around a bit.
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Old 02-02-2008, 04:37 PM #14
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That's correct, the dwell is not for setting the FPS. As I said, the air is coming out the same speed regardless of how long the dwell keeps the noid open. Too short and you do not get enough air to push the ball and cycle the bolt, too long and you are wasting air. So it really only effects velocity if it is too short (might shoot fine one shot, next drops out the barrel) Stick with your 40 for now. What is your ROF set to? Your on the right track.. make sure your bolt is good and lubed with sleek. Good bore to paint match. You need to get in front of a chrono and mess around a bit.

Dwell at 40
Rof at 0
gun is nice and lubed up

Im going to try the inserts tonight and hopefully your right and it does drop the fps. But Don't i need to redo the dwell since im changing the insert.. it makes sence the smaller chamber means it need less air so dwell should go down in comparsion to a larger chamber needing more air?
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Old 02-02-2008, 04:48 PM #15
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Move your ROF up.. no advantage of setting it to 0. Take it up to 11 and you will still get your 17bps with the stock board

"ROF: Preventing shoot-down: If, in its particular configuration a marker is experiencing shootdown (velocity drops while shooting fast, but returns to normal in single shots or slow strings) increasing the ROFD can be used to make sure the fire chamber has enough time between shots to be fully recharged."

Leave your dwell alone. You will be trying to fight the function of the inserts. Volume Control Insert does as it's name suggests, reduces the volume of gas behind the bolt. By keeping your pressure the same, but using an insert to reduce the voulme of air, you reduce the FPS. This lets you keep your higher PSI for faster cyclling, but reduce your FPS by decreasing the volume.
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Old 02-02-2008, 05:17 PM #16
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Why does everyone set there dwell at 35? Is something wrong with what the manuel's way of setting it? Its Sean from SP telling everyone to set the rof at 0 and said theres no drop offs... You can see why im confused right lol... Manuel says one thing, SP reps say one thing and very experinced players say another...
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Old 02-02-2008, 06:39 PM #17
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I think Sean is saying you can 0 it with no issues in his experience. On ION's the rule of 48 was used.. Dwell plus ROF should equal 48. expereince showed everyone this was a pretty good gauge to use. So a bit of a left over from that, but it still applies to some extent. Stock board maxes out at 17. A 40 dwell and 8 - 11 ROF still equals 17bps.

My Opinion: Why shorten it all the way to 0 and risk introducing drop-off if there is no gain to be made? Someone may have a valid reason for this. I would like to hear a different opinion myself on this.

For the most part any answer you get is going to be a mix of opinion and experience. Markers are all different. My 35/13 may work horribly on your marker. How you found your dwell on you marker is probably the best approach (bolt back, full shot noise add 15- 20 clicks).
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Old 02-02-2008, 07:17 PM #18
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I think Sean is saying you can 0 it with no issues in his experience. On ION's the rule of 48 was used.. Dwell plus ROF should equal 48. expereince showed everyone this was a pretty good gauge to use. So a bit of a left over from that, but it still applies to some extent. Stock board maxes out at 17. A 40 dwell and 8 - 11 ROF still equals 17bps.

My Opinion: Why shorten it all the way to 0 and risk introducing drop-off if there is no gain to be made? Someone may have a valid reason for this. I would like to hear a different opinion myself on this.

For the most part any answer you get is going to be a mix of opinion and experience. Markers are all different. My 35/13 may work horribly on your marker. How you found your dwell on you marker is probably the best approach (bolt back, full shot noise add 15- 20 clicks).

Yeah I heard of the 48 rule too.. Some people say its the best and some say every marker is diffrent and its totall bs... Anyways heading off to the feild to try things out! THanks for all your help these couple of days!
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:31 AM #19
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I think Sean is saying you can 0 it with no issues in his experience. On ION's the rule of 48 was used.. Dwell plus ROF should equal 48. expereince showed everyone this was a pretty good gauge to use. So a bit of a left over from that, but it still applies to some extent. Stock board maxes out at 17. A 40 dwell and 8 - 11 ROF still equals 17bps.

My Opinion: Why shorten it all the way to 0 and risk introducing drop-off if there is no gain to be made? Someone may have a valid reason for this. I would like to hear a different opinion myself on this.

For the most part any answer you get is going to be a mix of opinion and experience. Markers are all different. My 35/13 may work horribly on your marker. How you found your dwell on you marker is probably the best approach (bolt back, full shot noise add 15- 20 clicks).


Thanks! Your RIGHT! the inserts droped my fps and kept my psi up! BUT now i got another problem... Just my luck! I heard my marker leaking... I really can't believe this!! This marker is pretty much BRAND new...
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