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Old 01-31-2008, 09:57 PM #106
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Lulz Giuliani fails so hard.

He put all his effort into winning the Florida primary and lost.
McCain did the same thing with NH and look how it turned out for him
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I know, right?
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Old 01-31-2008, 10:11 PM #107
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Yeah but he didn't drop out of the race and he actually won other state primaries.
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:39 AM #108
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Originally Posted by Swerve22 View Post
McCain destroyed his support in the summer by blatantly reminding conservatives that *surprise surprise* he's still willing to do everything he can possibly to do go over the heads of the American people and try to ram his liberal ideas down our throats with his cloak-room country club buddies in the senate. Now because with the help of the adoring Mainstream Media he managed once again hoodwink enough independents into thinking he's some kind of "straight talker" enough to scrape off a 4 point win in New Hampshire and instantly be declared the "infallible frontrunner" I'm supposed to say "kudos"?

For every dollar of advertising money spent by Mitt Romney McCain gets $100 worth of loving and fawning MSM attention. This will of course end once McCain procures the nomination, and we're likely to see one of the biggest landslides in American history.



Ruh Roh! Big bad McStraighttalk wants to talk about flip flopping!
I wonder if you've actually been listening to any of the "straight talk" lately...

"straight talk" on the religious right:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XbrejLsixwk

"straight talk" on the confederate flag:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WN8EMmML-es

"straight talk" on ethanol:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=bT3q3PVZ_ck

"straight talk" on Ethics Reform:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-CZLTFvMM_E

some classic "straight talk" on gay marriage:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-CZLTFvMM_E

some great "straight talk" on foreign policy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajm5J...eature=related

"straight talk" on abortion:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kQU0TF18ZfI

"straight talk" on the death tax:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=SVumaLF79Uw

"straight talk" on immigration:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GEeJry0rAT8

"straight talk" on the Bush Tax Cuts:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dYsKiA3Myyw

Some more of McCain "straight talking" about how he's both for and against the Bush tax cuts:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wWr3rhGJviQ

Can't decide whether or not he would sign his own immigration bill:
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/01/3...igration-bill/

The list goes on and on and on and on. McCain's "straight talk" express seems to have a really bad habbit of taking the scenic route to the truth. But hey, did you know Mitt used to be pro-choice?


Well I can at least agree with you there. although McCain might not have been correct on the "withdrawl" quote he tried to use against Romney 3 days before Florida and during the debates last night and looked rather pathetic trying to make the connection, he could have slammed Romney much, much harder if he had used this quote instead:

[/i]

...Only problem is, Romney didn't actually say that - it was actually said by the king surge supporting, righteously indignantly benchmark condemning straight talker himself, JOHN MCCAIN.

Seeing as you're such a staunch condemner of benchmarks and timetables, I'll be accepting your condemnation of McCain either publicly or via PM.


You know, you're right. Let's make them all completely legal in 24 hours with the stroke of a pen like McCain wants to do (or doesn't now want to do, or wants to do either before or after he has "secured the borders" which is what he's apparently already done and bragged about doing in AZ, but needs to be the first priority before he either signs or doesn't sign the McCain Kennedy bill that he himself sponsored over the summer).

Sorry, I've got enough "straight talk" from Mr. McClinton to last me the rest of my adult life and then some. Stick a fork in him, he's finished in the general.
tl:dr? I could find just as many videos about Romney's change of stances but by the time I finish sifting through them all he'll have dropped out.

I also didn't realize that McCain's stances on the Confederate Flag, Religious Right, and Ethics Reform were major issues in the eyes of voters. He's running on national security, that's it. He earned an 83% Conservative rating in the Senate. All the *****ing on his earlier opposition to the Bush tax cuts is really unmerited too; McCain actually understands that lowering taxes and increasing spending is a bad thing. However, he has said that he will keep the tax cuts and thinks they should be made permanent. His record shows that he is a deficit hawk and will control spending, something that has gotten terribly out of hand under Bush.

I don't care about his views on abortion, gay marriage, ethanol, etc. I choose a candidate based on the economy and foreign policy. McCain has vastly more experience in that area than anyone else running and is a smart and competent enough leader to listen to his advisors on the economy.

On immigration, have you even worked out the logistics of uprooting 12 million people? The border must be controlled, no doubt, but removing more than five percent of the workforce in a time of economic uncertainty is stupid.
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Old 02-01-2008, 11:09 AM #109
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tl:dr? I could find just as many videos about Romney's change of stances but by the time I finish sifting through them all he'll have dropped out.

I also didn't realize that McCain's stances on the Confederate Flag, Religious Right, and Ethics Reform were major issues in the eyes of voters. He's running on national security, that's it. He earned an 83% Conservative rating in the Senate. All the *****ing on his earlier opposition to the Bush tax cuts is really unmerited too; McCain actually understands that lowering taxes and increasing spending is a bad thing. However, he has said that he will keep the tax cuts and thinks they should be made permanent. His record shows that he is a deficit hawk and will control spending, something that has gotten terribly out of hand under Bush.
So you are for a one dimensional candidate? Who cares what the voters are looking for, we are comparing the stances of two candidates here. John McCain is a talking head, just like Bush. He offers nothing new for this country, and it's sad that some people can't see this.

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I don't care about his views on abortion, gay marriage, ethanol, etc. I choose a candidate based on the economy and foreign policy. McCain has vastly more experience in that area than anyone else running and is a smart and competent enough leader to listen to his advisors on the economy.

Again, you are extremely apathetic my friend. If all you look for in a candidate is two things, then that's your choice I suppose, but even the two you mentioned, you are dead wrong on both IMO.

1)John McCain has been quoted as saying we need to maintain a presence in Iraq for 100 years if it takes that long. He clearly is in the dillusional belief that terrorist only come to attack us here in America because they hate our freedom and way of life, and not because of the obvious reason that it is due to US interventionism overseas. That rhetoric is so overused and tired I can't fathom another President using it for the next 4 years. Fearmongering presidents ftl. Maintianing a military presence in Iraq is a BAD IDEA; Open a history book for God's sake already. Grenada, Lebanon, 9/11, WW2, Spanish-American War, Mexican War...the list goes on and on. Bad things happen when we tred on the land rightfully owned by others.

2) John McCain has been quoted as saying numerous times that he does not understand the economy as well as he should. That is absolutly pathetic. He is relying soley on the "people around him" to make the decisions regarding economic policy. Ya know, Bush did the same thing, and look at where we are now. Corporate lobyist controlling government is bad, I don't understand why you are ok with it.
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Old 02-01-2008, 11:28 AM #110
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So you are for a one dimensional candidate? Who cares what the voters are looking for, we are comparing the stances of two candidates here. John McCain is a talking head, just like Bush. He offers nothing new for this country, and it's sad that some people can't see this.




Again, you are extremely apathetic my friend. If all you look for in a candidate is two things, then that's your choice I suppose, but even the two you mentioned, you are dead wrong on both IMO.

1)John McCain has been quoted as saying we need to maintain a presence in Iraq for 100 years if it takes that long. He clearly is in the dillusional belief that terrorist only come to attack us here in America because they hate our freedom and way of life, and not because of the obvious reason that it is due to US interventionism overseas. That rhetoric is so overused and tired I can't fathom another President using it for the next 4 years. Fearmongering presidents ftl. Maintianing a military presence in Iraq is a BAD IDEA; Open a history book for God's sake already. Grenada, Lebanon, 9/11, WW2, Spanish-American War, Mexican War...the list goes on and on. Bad things happen when we tred on the land rightfully owned by others.

2) John McCain has been quoted as saying numerous times that he does not understand the economy as well as he should. That is absolutly pathetic. He is relying soley on the "people around him" to make the decisions regarding economic policy. Ya know, Bush did the same thing, and look at where we are now. Corporate lobyist controlling government is bad, I don't understand why you are ok with it.
I'm extremely apathetic because I don't care about a candidate's views on the Confederate Flag or the Religious Right? The economy and foreign policy are the most important issues in the election and I choose my candidate based on whether I think he can handle those two issues. A strong Defense, economy, and small government are cornerstones of Reaganite government and I think McCain will maintain them.

1.) You took his quote out of context. He said he would maintain a troop presence in Iraq as long as they weren't getting killed, we're still in Germany and Japan, you know? The Middle East is the powder keg of the world right now, it would be stupid not to maintain at least some form of troop presence there. McCain knows foreign policy. All of your examples weren't very good either: the US won in Grenada, Lebanon, WWII, etc.

2.) At least he admits that he doesn't know it and will listen to his advisors. You don't have to be expert to at least have some understanding of how our economy works. McCain strongly condemned Washington's ridiculous spending while in the Senate and is a strong advocate of free trade. He'll keep the tax cuts, reduce spending, and won't tamper with globalization. That doesn't sound like such a bad economic candidate after all.
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Old 02-01-2008, 11:44 AM #111
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I'm extremely apathetic because I don't care about a candidate's views on the Confederate Flag or the Religious Right? The economy and foreign policy are the most important issues in the election and I choose my candidate based on whether I think he can handle those two issues. A strong Defense, economy, and small government are cornerstones of Reaganite government and I think McCain will maintain them.
It's apathetic because you are basically ignoring everything he does and says that is anti-conservative because you are so in the belief that he is the best on foriegn policy and the economy. McCain is not a true conservative, whether you want to believe it or not.

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1.) You took his quote out of context. He said he would maintain a troop presence in Iraq as long as they weren't getting killed, we're still in Germany and Japan, you know? The Middle East is the powder keg of the world right now, it would be stupid not to maintain at least some form of troop presence there. McCain knows foreign policy. All of your examples weren't very good either: the US won in Grenada, Lebanon, WWII, etc.
My examples were dead on. You're looking at it the wrong way. We were involved in all of those regions of the world...and look what happened? We got attacked. Our soldiers were captured in Grenada, over 400 marines were killed in Lebanon, Pearl Harbor in WW2, we were in Saudi Arabia when we were attacked on 9/11....the list goes on. If we are involved over seas in lands where we don't belong, there is the chance we can be attacked because we are provoking the people. Just becuase we came back and "won" the fight in the end, my point is that we can avoid the entire scenario by staying out of foreign lands. Maintaining a presence in Iraq for 100 years is just begging for another attack from secular groups in the region.

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2.) At least he admits that he doesn't know it and will listen to his advisors. You don't have to be expert to at least have some understanding of how our economy works. McCain strongly condemned Washington's ridiculous spending while in the Senate and is a strong advocate of free trade. He'll keep the tax cuts, reduce spending, and won't tamper with globalization. That doesn't sound like such a bad economic candidate after all.
Mitt Romney is an actual economic leader. He runs a thriving billion dollar business, and helped turn the economy around in Massachussettes in a conservative way with a very liberal Mass. legislature. If McCain is not going to lead the economy for us, then who will? I am oppossed to having unelected people run our economy. Maybe you are ok with that, but I look at what happened the past 8 years, with Bush and Haliburton, and the military industrial complex, and all the shady deals that in the end hurt the middle class. I don't want a President's buddies in charge of the economy, I want the President.
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:00 PM #112
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I'm extremely apathetic because I don't care about a candidate's views on the Confederate Flag or the Religious Right? The economy and foreign policy are the most important issues in the election and I choose my candidate based on whether I think he can handle those two issues. A strong Defense, economy, and small government are cornerstones of Reaganite government and I think McCain will maintain them.

Just like he turned his back on his fellow POWs, and betrayed their trust?
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:39 PM #113
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Just like he turned his back on his fellow POWs, and betrayed their trust?
which is the reason several vets organizations wouldn't endorse him, hes a traitor in their eyes
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:44 PM #114
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Just like he turned his back on his fellow POWs, and betrayed their trust?
Ooh could you toss me a link of this.

More ammo for my anti-mccain campaign.
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:46 PM #115
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tl:dr? I could find just as many videos about Romney's change of stances but by the time I finish sifting through them all he'll have dropped out.
As I have demonstrated and you have refused to answer to McVain has flip-flopped unabashedly virtually every issue he's ever taken a stance on. You have the gal to call Romney a flip flopper because he changed his mind on abortion when McCain can't even figure out whether or not he'd sign HIS OWN IMMIGRATION BILL. This guy triangulates like a true Clintonian apprentice. Only difference is the Clintons actually attempt to trianglate with whatever's popular with the voters at the time, and Juan triangulates with whatever's pupular with the Mainstream Media.

But did you know Romney flip flopped on abortion z0mgs!!!11!!eleventies!!1

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I also didn't realize that McCain's stances on the Confederate Flag, Religious Right, and Ethics Reform were major issues in the eyes of voters. He's running on national security, that's it.
So you have no problem with McCain's flip flopping worse than a whitecastle burger because you don't care about the issues? Wow, that really excites me to vote for McCain, you should take that talking point on the air. I guess honesty isn't important as long as he's lying to other people, eh?

He's also for benchmarks and pulling out of Iraq according to his own argument this week at the CNN debate. I see you chose to ignore that but continue to attempt to use a similar yet far less relevant quote to bash Romney in true Clintonian/McCain fashion.

When are you going to call McCain a "non surge supporting" for advocating benchmarks with the threat of withdrawing? Since that's one of your big disqualifiers with Romney, I'm imagining you've stopped supporting Juan after seeing that quote as well.


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He earned an 83% Conservative rating in the Senate.
What are you the second coming of Michael Medved? Just like Medved you can't answer to any of McCains flip flops or the horribly liberal bills he's used to backstab conservatives repeatedly for the past 8 years, all you can do is say "but look, so and so says he's OK" and hope it passes as a solid defense. It doesn't. McCain's "Conservative rating in the Senate" which is actually his ACU rating, but I'm sure you knew that. You know what he got in 2006? a 65. McCain's numbers have been steadily dropping since he first realize he can gain points with the MSM by poking his own party in the eye back in 2000.

But since you're so concerned about the ACU ratings I'm sure you'll now be voting for Romney, since the President of the ACU has officially endorsed him.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefi...es_romney.html


Quote:
All the *****ing on his earlier opposition to the Bush tax cuts is really unmerited too; McCain actually understands that lowering taxes and increasing spending is a bad thing. However, he has said that he will keep the tax cuts and thinks they should be made permanent. His record shows that he is a deficit hawk and will control spending, something that has gotten terribly out of hand under Bush.
As was clearly pointed out in one of the McCain "straight talk" videos above that you failed to respond to was McCain's actual arguments when opposing the Bush tax cuts. Those arguments were "tax cuts for th rich" which is and always has been a democrat class warfare talking point. He never said anything about "because of spending" or anything of the like until he started getting called on it in 2006/7.

But let me get this straight - McCain is "straight talking" about how he likes the Bush tax cuts even though he voted against them twice, and how he "wants to make them permanent" even though he "would still vote against them".

Quote:
I don't care about his views on abortion, gay marriage, ethanol, etc. I choose a candidate based on the economy and foreign policy. McCain has vastly more experience in that area than anyone else running and is a smart and competent enough leader to listen to his advisors on the economy.
Looks like you and McCain disagree on this. McCain: "I don't know the economy as well as I should". I guess you believed him when he flip flopped on that statement and said he doesn't know where it came from as well though, right?

And I've already noted that since your such an avid decrier of timetables and benchmarks, than you'll be switching to Romney immediately after you actually read my earlier post since it clearly displays how while Romney may have talked about "secret timetables and benchmarks" held between Bush and Maliki to measure success and progress, McBenchmark has openly stated that we need "specific benchmarks" and if they are not met then we "fail the mission".

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On immigration, have you even worked out the logistics of uprooting 12 million people? The border must be controlled, no doubt, but removing more than five percent of the workforce in a time of economic uncertainty is stupid.
I don't know who you're trying to aim this straw-man argument at, since no candidate on either side currently is advocating such a plan. My guess is that you picked it up from Micheal Medved or some other McCain talking head.

McCain is the worst candidate on BOTH sides of the aisle on Illegal Immigration. He flip-flopped TWICE withing 4 DAYS about whether or not he would even sign into law HIS OWN IMMIGRATION BILL THAT HE WROTE as commander in Chief. Luckily he's not ever going to have to make up his mind about it, because he'll never be Commander in Chief.
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Old 02-01-2008, 01:38 PM #116
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Ooh could you toss me a link of this.

More ammo for my anti-mccain campaign.

He was part of the Senate sub committee, along with John Kerry, who stated that they knew there were still 500 or so POWs left in Laos and southern Asia, but felt that the books should be closed on the issue. I don't have a direct link to the actual minutes of the meeting, but I can post up a link or two to some military forums where they were discussing the issue and dropping links here and there. McCain has lost quite a bit of support from the military.
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:34 PM #117
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I don't care about his views on abortion, gay marriage, ethanol, etc. I choose a candidate based on the economy and foreign policy.
Obviously theres other reasons or based on that premise alone you'd almost have to endorse you know who.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:06 PM #118
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As I have demonstrated and you have refused to answer to McVain has flip-flopped unabashedly virtually every issue he's ever taken a stance on. You have the gal to call Romney a flip flopper because he changed his mind on abortion when McCain can't even figure out whether or not he'd sign HIS OWN IMMIGRATION BILL. This guy triangulates like a true Clintonian apprentice. Only difference is the Clintons actually attempt to trianglate with whatever's popular with the voters at the time, and Juan triangulates with whatever's pupular with the Mainstream Media.

But did you know Romney flip flopped on abortion z0mgs!!!11!!eleventies!!1

I'm not the only one calling Romney a flip-flopper. He won in a liberal state as a pro-choice, pro-gay marriage (both of which I support) Republican. Now he's resurfaced as a "conservative" who has taken every conservative position he can think of in order to gain support from the establishment. He managed to take Michigan by desperately promising to help recover lost jobs "straight talking" John McCain flatly said were gone. Great, now if Romney gets the nomination I can count on my tax dollars going to help government intervention in an economically backwards state. And can you really say McCain has "flip-flopped" on every position he's ever taken? What about his stark opposition to excessive spending and position in favor of a strong National Defense? Citing McCain's 'flip-flopping' stances on the Confederate Flag, the death tax, and ethanol aren't really detrimental to his campaign like Romney's drastic change from a pro-choice, pro-gay marriage moderate to a traditional, Reaganite Conservative. The Republican establishment's biggest beef with Romney lies over whether they can really trust him.

So you have no problem with McCain's flip flopping worse than a whitecastle burger because you don't care about the issues? Wow, that really excites me to vote for McCain, you should take that talking point on the air. I guess honesty isn't important as long as he's lying to other people, eh?

I can honestly say I don't care about McCain "flip-flopping" on explosive issues like the flying of the Confederate Flag.

He's also for benchmarks and pulling out of Iraq according to his own argument this week at the CNN debate. I see you chose to ignore that but continue to attempt to use a similar yet far less relevant quote to bash Romney in true Clintonian/McCain fashion.

This would seem to contradict the '100 Year War' argument flying around against him, huh? I never said I wasn't for benchmarks for a major withdrawal, I just don't want them to withdraw right now. I don't think anyone supports having the vast majority of the US Armed Forces in Iraq for a hundred years. We're just not for immediate pull out or walking a tightrope on the subject like Romney.

When are you going to call McCain a "non surge supporting" for advocating benchmarks with the threat of withdrawing? Since that's one of your big disqualifiers with Romney, I'm imagining you've stopped supporting Juan after seeing that quote as well.

Oh, McCain's making 'threats of withdrawing?' Despite the success of the troop surge in resurrecting his campaign he is making 'threats of withdrawing?' What date did he set to surrender to the terrorists?

What are you the second coming of Michael Medved? Just like Medved you can't answer to any of McCains flip flops or the horribly liberal bills he's used to backstab conservatives repeatedly for the past 8 years, all you can do is say "but look, so and so says he's OK" and hope it passes as a solid defense. It doesn't. McCain's "Conservative rating in the Senate" which is actually his ACU rating, but I'm sure you knew that. You know what he got in 2006? a 65. McCain's numbers have been steadily dropping since he first realize he can gain points with the MSM by poking his own party in the eye back in 2000.

Oh no! Not 'horribly liberal bills' like campaign finance reform! Having a willigness to work with the other side doesn't disqualify him from the race. McCain has been described as being 'conservative' but not 'a conservative,' which is fine with me. I'm a moderate, libertarian-Republican. Either way, his 83% Conservative rating will stand in stark contrast to Hillary Clinton's record (I believe she got a 17% Conservative rating) or Barack "The most Liberal Senator in 07" Obama's. Like him or not, he is the GOP's best shot at victory.

But since you're so concerned about the ACU ratings I'm sure you'll now be voting for Romney, since the President of the ACU has officially endorsed him.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefi...es_romney.html

I'm not concerned with the ratings I just posted it to stop all the 'liberal McCain' talk. And I'd rather have Rudy and Ahnold's endorsements.


As was clearly pointed out in one of the McCain "straight talk" videos above that you failed to respond to was McCain's actual arguments when opposing the Bush tax cuts. Those arguments were "tax cuts for th rich" which is and always has been a democrat class warfare talking point. He never said anything about "because of spending" or anything of the like until he started getting called on it in 2006/7.

In the end, he was right though. The tax cuts combined with increased spending have ran up an impressive deficit. However, he said he will keep the cuts and decrease spending. I will believe him on both issues.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:12 PM #119
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He was part of the Senate sub committee, along with John Kerry, who stated that they knew there were still 500 or so POWs left in Laos and southern Asia, but felt that the books should be closed on the issue. I don't have a direct link to the actual minutes of the meeting, but I can post up a link or two to some military forums where they were discussing the issue and dropping links here and there. McCain has lost quite a bit of support from the military.
Despite having endorsements from over 100 retired generals and admirals.
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Old 02-01-2008, 05:47 PM #120
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Despite having endorsements from over 100 retired generals and admirals.

He may have support from some people at the top, but that doesn't change the person he is. A lot of the people in the **** don't want him. I've seen plenty of people say that they'd vote for Hill dog over McCain, simply because of his disloyalty to his brothers.
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Old 02-01-2008, 10:05 PM #121
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wow, i wasnt so happy of him dropping out =[
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Old 02-02-2008, 01:58 AM #122
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Originally Posted by Kellster View Post
Despite having endorsements from over 100 retired generals and admirals.
and the NYT
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