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Old 01-31-2008, 02:58 PM #85
2term8r
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adema3412 View Post
Since Legacy Wins never answered these questions/comments, maybe you can.
He increased fee's on items that haven't fiscaly changed in over 25 years and that needed to change to stay up to date with our current economy; not the economy of 25 years ago. Learn the facts.
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:59 PM #86
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Originally Posted by 2term8r View Post
Ideologicaly I'd agree with Paul, but our country isn't ready yet for a constitutionalist.
oh I almost forgot. You're claiming our country is not ready for someone who wants to take us in a direction we have already been? Please explain this logic....
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Old 01-31-2008, 03:05 PM #87
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Originally Posted by pbmike15 View Post
oh I almost forgot. You're claiming our country is not ready for someone who wants to take us in a direction we have already been? Please explain this logic....
The logic is that the people don't want a constitutionalist as our president, so why say that he should be there when its obvious that he gets a only a small percentage of points.

The difference between you and I is that I support what the country wants as a majority, and thats not Ron Paul.
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Old 01-31-2008, 03:10 PM #88
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Originally Posted by 2term8r View Post
The logic is that the people don't want a constitutionalist as our president, so why say that he should be there when its obvious that he gets a only a small percentage of points.

The difference between you and I is that I support what the country wants as a majority, and thats not Ron Paul.
The people don't know what they want. If you haven't learned that out by now, then this debate it over. Florida for example: 45% of voters voted for McCain for his "strong economic experience." McCain...the guy who claims to know nothing about economics. It really makes you question why some people get elected....

People vote apathetically these days. They truly don't know who the best candidate really is. They vote primarily based on party affliation, and media coverage. Two months ago, nobody thought McCain had a shot in hell, and now the media plays him up to be some great conservative and now we have him as the new front runner. Surpising no? People with genuine ideas, based on logic and understanding of where this country came from, like Ron Paul, will never have a realistic shot at the presidency with the way things are set up now. It is truly sad.

Last, the difference between you and I is that I vote for who I know is right, where you vote for who you think is going to win. It's as simple as that.
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Old 01-31-2008, 03:16 PM #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2term8r View Post
He increased fee's on items that haven't fiscaly changed in over 25 years and that needed to change to stay up to date with our current economy; not the economy of 25 years ago. Learn the facts.
Show me the facts, because everything I have read, did not point to these fees not changing over a 25 year period.
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Old 01-31-2008, 03:54 PM #90
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Saying that running a government is much different than running a business is correct, but knowing the ins and outs of how business works means that one would have an intimate knowledge of the effects of various different economic policies and ideologies, and how they can either hurt or help small and large business owners as well as consumers. That's real world experience you just can't find in 15 years in the senate, and leads myself and many others to believe that Romney has a far superior edge in this area.

I think the original point you were making though in this post if I remember correctly was that Romney's private sector experience wasn't valid in showing that he is credible on his claim to be the most able to "audit washington" and eliminate government waste. To this I would say that not only has he done so numerous times in the private sector and the olympics, but he has also done so in Mass:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Club For Growth
- To Close The Budget Gap, Governor Romney Forced The Legislature To Pass "Tremendous Spending Cuts." "Governor Romney receives credit for actual spending in FY 2003, even though he entered office halfway into the fiscal year, because of the tremendous spending cuts he forced down the Legislature's throat in January of 2003. Facing a $650 million deficit he inherited from the previous administration, Romney convinced the unfriendly State Legislature to grant him unilateral power to make budget cuts and unveiled $343 million in cuts to cities, healthcare, and state agencies. This fiscal discipline continued in 2004, in which Romney continued to slash 'nearly every part of state government' to close a $3 billion deficit." (The Club For Growth, "Mitt Romney's Record On Economic Issues," Press Release, 8/21/07)
Romney has specific plans to cut government spending and eliminate waste which includes the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitt Romney
Establish Strict Spending Limits. Veto domestic nondefense discretionary appropriations that increase spending by more than inflation minus one percent.

Conduct Stem-To-Stern Review. Re-examine and evaluate all federal spending programs to identify waste, duplication, and inefficiencies that can be eliminated.

Reform Entitlements. In a forthright and bipartisan manner, as President, Governor Romney will work with Congress to address the looming budget crisis caused by increasing entitlement spending.

Institute The Line-Item Veto. Give the President the same power held by most state governors, to veto individual elements of a spending bill and strip out unnecessary spending.

Give President Flexibility. Authorize the Executive Branch to spend up to 25 percent less than Congress appropriates for a given project or agency.

Restore Supermajority Requirement. Impose congressional rule requiring a three-fifths (60%) supermajority to pass any law that would raise taxes.
Your argument that Romney eliminated MA deficit through raising fees is a talking point, nothing more:

Quote:
Originally Posted by AP
Fees Only Accounted For A Small Percent Of The Closure Of The Nearly $3 Billion Budget Gap. "Romney campaign spokesman Eric Fehrnstrom said some of the fees that kicked in during Romney's first year had been approved before he became governor. ... 'When Governor Romney took office, he faced a $3 billion deficit,' Fehrnstrom said. 'He balanced the budget primarily through spending cuts and reforms. Fee increases accounted for approximately 10 percent of the solution, and they were not broad-based by any means.'" (Steve LeBlanc, "Romney Oversaw Millions In Fee Hikes As Massachusetts Governor," The Associated Press, 8/28/07)
Romney has also shown a strong ability to use the line item veto to cut pork and control spending:

Quote:
- For All Four Of The Fiscal-Year Budgets That Crossed His Desk, Governor Romney Used The Line-Item Veto Power More Than 800 Times. Over the course of four budgets, Governor Romney made over 300 line-item reductions, 350 line-item eliminations and struck language 150 times. (Chapter 26 Of The Commonwealth Of Massachusetts Acts Of 2003, Governor's Veto Message, 6/30/03; Chapter 149 Of The Commonwealth Of Massachusetts Acts Of 2004, Governor's Veto Message, 6/25/04; Chapter 45 Of The Commonwealth Of Massachusetts Acts Of 2005, Governor's Veto Message, 6/30/05; Governor Mitt Romney, Memo To The Senate And House Of Representatives Of The Commonwealth Of Massachusetts; Fiscal Year 2007 General Appropriations Act Veto Items: Line Item Accounts, 7/8/06)
Romney has also consistently fought to lower taxes as well, and has a better record in that area than any other Candidate in the field.

I fail to see how his record is in any way lacking when compared to any of the other current or former presidential candidates. While it's easy to bring up talking points like "fees" and "I'm not impressed" and "government is different than business", Romney has proven his ability to assume fiscal responsibility across the board, and any fair look at his record shows that he was able to do in a short time in the government in Massachusetts exactly what he claims to be able to do in the USA.
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Old 01-31-2008, 04:03 PM #91
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Originally Posted by Mitt Romney
Establish Strict Spending Limits. Veto domestic nondefense discretionary appropriations that increase spending by more than inflation minus one percent.
Establishing regulations on spending is most likely less efficient than cutting government itself. I would see much more benefit in eliminating the Department of Education than putting a limit on their spending.

Conduct Stem-To-Stern Review. Re-examine and evaluate all federal spending programs to identify waste, duplication, and inefficiencies that can be eliminated.
Liposuctioning a pig. Why not just slaughter the pig so we can all have a feast? Get rid of bureaucracy all together.

Reform Entitlements. In a forthright and bipartisan manner, as President, Governor Romney will work with Congress to address the looming budget crisis caused by increasing entitlement spending.
He should make it a goal to get rid of the root cause of our economic roller coaster. We should work to eventually have a backed currency and eliminate the federal reserve, or at least their power to devalue the dollar.

Institute The Line-Item Veto. Give the President the same power held by most state governors, to veto individual elements of a spending bill and strip out unnecessary spending.
I hope he does this the constitutional way, through an amendment. But this would be a good thing.

Give President Flexibility. Authorize the Executive Branch to spend up to 25 percent less than Congress appropriates for a given project or agency.
Another regulation that's creators assumes could work under all situations.

Restore Supermajority Requirement. Impose congressional rule requiring a three-fifths (60%) supermajority to pass any law that would raise taxes.
Hope he plans to do it constitutionally.
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Old 01-31-2008, 04:51 PM #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2term8r View Post
The logic is that the people don't want a constitutionalist as our president, so why say that he should be there when its obvious that he gets a only a small percentage of points.

The difference between you and I is that I support what the country wants as a majority, and thats not Ron Paul.
tyranny of the majority much?
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Old 01-31-2008, 06:12 PM #93
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Originally Posted by LegacyWins View Post
2term, you just have to learn to ignore the paulbots.

*puts up flame shield*
Supporting the constitution is annoying now is it?

Alright...
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Old 01-31-2008, 06:42 PM #94
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Originally Posted by Swerve22 View Post
Saying that running a government is much different than running a business is correct, but knowing the ins and outs of how business works means that one would have an intimate knowledge of the effects of various different economic policies and ideologies, and how they can either hurt or help small and large business owners as well as consumers. That's real world experience you just can't find in 15 years in the senate, and leads myself and many others to believe that Romney has a far superior edge in this area.
I'm not saying business experience is not a legitimate form of economic expertise, just, as I'll try to show below, that during his time in governor Romney did not do the exemplary job that he is claiming; not that he is underqualified, but simply that his economic record does not warrant the praise it often receives.

Quote:
- To Close The Budget Gap, Governor Romney Forced The Legislature To Pass "Tremendous Spending Cuts." "Governor Romney receives credit for actual spending in FY 2003, even though he entered office halfway into the fiscal year, because of the tremendous spending cuts he forced down the Legislature's throat in January of 2003. Facing a $650 million deficit he inherited from the previous administration, Romney convinced the unfriendly State Legislature to grant him unilateral power to make budget cuts and unveiled $343 million in cuts to cities, healthcare, and state agencies. This fiscal discipline continued in 2004, in which Romney continued to slash 'nearly every part of state government' to close a $3 billion deficit." (The Club For Growth, "Mitt Romney's Record On Economic Issues," Press Release, 8/21/07)
Very nice work quoting a small snippet from a website, which says much of what I was planning to say. Once again, I'm not saying he will do a bad job just that he is not an economic savior.

Quote:
As Massachusetts Governor, Mitt Romney's record on economic issues was generally good. He demonstrated a willingness to take on his Legislature and deserves credit for the many pro-growth measures he advocated and the modest reforms he was able to achieve. While his record on taxes, spending and entitlement reform is flawed, it is, on balance, encouraging, especially given the liberal Massachusetts Legislature. His record on trade, school choice, regulations, and tort reform all indicate a strong respect for the power of market solutions.

At the same time, Governor Romney's history is marked by statements at odds with his gubernatorial record and his campaign rhetoric. His strident opposition to the flat tax; his refusal to endorse the Bush tax cuts in 2003; his support for various minor tax hikes; and his once-radically bad views on campaign finance reform all cast some doubts on the extent and durability of his commitment to limited-government, pro-growth policies. His landmark steps in the health care arena also exhibit a mixture of desirable pro-free market efforts combined with a regrettable willingness to accept, if not embrace, a massive new regulatory regime. Nevertheless, given his outstanding private sector entrepreneurial experience; the strong pro-growth positions he has taken on the campaign trail; his overall record as governor; and the fact that the U.S. Congress will not be as liberal as the Massachusetts Legislature, we are reasonably optimistic that, as President, Mitt Romney would generally advocate a pro-growth agenda.
Quote:
Establish Strict Spending Limits. Veto domestic nondefense discretionary appropriations that increase spending by more than inflation minus one percent.
This is one of those, I'll believe it when I see it kind of things.

Quote:
Conduct Stem-To-Stern Review. Re-examine and evaluate all federal spending programs to identify waste, duplication, and inefficiencies that can be eliminated.
This is something I would like to see, but it's another one of those easier said than done sort of things.

Quote:
Institute The Line-Item Veto. Give the President the same power held by most state governors, to veto individual elements of a spending bill and strip out unnecessary spending.
Not going to happen and while I like the idea behind the line item veto, I can see it being used very easily for partisan politics.

Quote:
Give President Flexibility. Authorize the Executive Branch to spend up to 25 percent less than Congress appropriates for a given project or agency.
Same thing as above.

Quote:
Your argument that Romney eliminated MA deficit through raising fees is a talking point, nothing more:
No, it's not. Fees are taxes and they effect consumer behavior and he got rid of a large portion of the deficit through raising fees.
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Old 01-31-2008, 08:17 PM #95
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I was actually somewhat starting to like McCain in a way, but after watching him in that debate there is no chance in hell I could ever vote for him. Same with Romeny, they are both ****ing scumbags. Huckabee seems like a genuine person but I don't want to see him in office, too religious for me.

Ron Paul is just an amazing man. When he stood up there and said enough with the bickering how about we actually talk policy I was about to start crying. I hope Ron Paul has inspired thousands of people to take up and be active in politics with his ideals. I know he has inspired me.
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Old 01-31-2008, 08:55 PM #96
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So Im watching the democratic debate and I can't stop thinking about how much better of a debate it is. They're discussing real issues and their actual plans for when they become president. Ron Paul tried to bring it to that last night, but the moderators wouldn't allow it and the rest of the candidates continued acting like children whining about who said what when and who supports what more, and the occasional joke cracking from Huck. None of these guys stand a chance... (except Ron Paul if he got the nomination)
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Old 01-31-2008, 09:00 PM #97
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Ideologicaly I'd agree with Paul, but our country isn't ready yet for a constitutionalist.
Huh?
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:43 PM #98
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I wonder what happen to our Economy if a Constitutionalist DID get in office, and did away with the rampant consolidation of our Representatives to major Corporations.
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:46 PM #99
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I wonder what happen to our Economy if a Constitutionalist DID get in office, and did away with the rampant consolidation of our Representatives to major Corporations.
global warming would cease, world peace would break out, and everyone would hold hands and sing coombya
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Old 02-01-2008, 01:51 PM #100
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global warming would cease, world peace would break out, and everyone would hold hands and sing coombya
You're damn right we'd sing! *Shakes fist*
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Old 02-01-2008, 09:13 PM #101
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Its official; the top 4 conservative talk show hosts; Limbaugh, Savage, Beck and Hannity all support Romney. I was surprised that Savage gave his support considoring his harsh views of the current party in place. Romney is the closest to a conservative that can actualy win right now.
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Old 02-01-2008, 10:13 PM #102
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Hey, all four of those men are douchebags too! Go figure!
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