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Old 12-07-2007, 09:26 PM #85
Horizon
 
 
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In my experience price is rarely the issue. Value is. If you compete on price alone you will get the consumers you deserve.

Chris
I like that line.
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Old 12-20-2007, 02:42 PM #86
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This has been a very interesting thread. I worked in the SCUBA diving industry for 5 years (a store and mfg) and these are the exact same stories I we would tell and hear. These activites are dependant upon the economy and when that starts to slow, people have second thoughts about spending the additional income they have. In diving, stores were always looking to under cut each other or offer training at rates that were to low to pay instructor more than a few dollars per student.

It sounds very similar in this industry. A solid business plan, good service, and understanding your customer is not a lemming will go a long way in business suviving. Profits...that is another story :-)
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Old 12-20-2007, 04:01 PM #87
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My family and I have been running a store for going on 4 years and we I have been trying to get them to start investing in a field. I know we will most likely get the land and sit on it till the econmy getts going again and open since the paintball industry is down. So i was wonder on averge what you guys spend on the field besides the cost for land. Thanks
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Old 12-20-2007, 04:39 PM #88
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If your in the 916 what are you going to do as a field to compete with the other local fields like CEPP? If you don't compete or offer something why would someone go.

Costs for running a field vary a lot depending on what you have and how busy you are, all the fields, turf, netting, insurance, labor, rentals, etc are not cheap.
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Old 01-04-2008, 09:11 PM #89
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I am 31 years old and have been an active paintballer for about 3 years. I play once per month with me nephew, and some friends. I spend alot of money. I am successful in business and make a nice income. When I go I spend on everything, I buy lunch, paint, marker, masks, tanks, accessories. I just want to play and have a good time. This past weekend I was at On Target Paintball in Pembroke, NJ. The field was nice the reffing staff was good. However I had an issue with my X7 it was leaking. I needed an air smith. The owner apologized and said no one could help me. So I took my marker apart in the parking lot, I dropped one of the trigger springs and couldn't find it. Long story short I went to Quickshot Paintball and purchased a new X7. Figured I might as well have a back up marker. I lost about an hour of play time due to this incident. The moral of the story is a serious rec/scenario player like myslelf is willuing to pay for service. I want refs who actually engauge players. Help shot players off, keep everyone honest and make sure we have a fun safe game. I want an air smith to help me when I have a problem. I want a store onsite to buy what I need. I don't need the biggest selection, But I need to be able to buy remotes, tanks and such a gew markers would be a good idea too. I want the site to be clean and netted well. I want staff in the picnic area keeping me safe and keeping games moving. I hapily pay $85 to $100 per case and buy 3 or 4 cases a day. But I want to feel like the extra money I pay for paint gets me something. I thought you guys might like to hear from a player.

Chris

I see where you are coming from. The problem is that a large number of people who play our sport are teenagers on a budget, and that includes myself. There is NO WAY I will spend $85+ on a case of paint. I don't care if it is X-Ball Gold, I dont care if your field has the best service, I don't care if your fields are nicest fields in all of the U.S. I just can't to drop that much money on a case of paint. Plain and simple. I mean, half the time I go to play It's to hang out with my friends, just shoot some paint and hopefully earn bragging rights for the next week or two.
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Old 01-07-2008, 02:04 PM #90
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I see where you are coming from. The problem is that a large number of people who play our sport are teenagers on a budget, and that includes myself. There is NO WAY I will spend $85+ on a case of paint. I don't care if it is X-Ball Gold, I dont care if your field has the best service, I don't care if your fields are nicest fields in all of the U.S. I just can't to drop that much money on a case of paint. Plain and simple. I mean, half the time I go to play It's to hang out with my friends, just shoot some paint and hopefully earn bragging rights for the next week or two.
Thats the problem right there. Alot of people do not understand how expensive COST is on the products. If a store buys cases at $35.00 per case you expect to buy it at $39.00. Not happening, then the next thing you know the store is going out of bussiness because you can not afford to pay the standard retail price and the store can not afford to sell at 10% over cost. I have been there, and done that. That goes for pretty much all the products. If the store tries to make alittle money to feed their family ( and I dont mean 100% mark up) they will not sell a single product because everyone wants a deal. They say "Well I saw it online for this much". This is not true for everyone but atleast 8/10 people. Thats sad. For those that love the sport but cant afford it. GET A JOB... You are killing the sport.
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Old 01-16-2008, 06:26 PM #91
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Thats the problem right there. Alot of people do not understand how expensive COST is on the products. If a store buys cases at $35.00 per case you expect to buy it at $39.00. Not happening, then the next thing you know the store is going out of bussiness because you can not afford to pay the standard retail price and the store can not afford to sell at 10% over cost. I have been there, and done that. That goes for pretty much all the products. If the store tries to make alittle money to feed their family ( and I dont mean 100% mark up) they will not sell a single product because everyone wants a deal. They say "Well I saw it online for this much". This is not true for everyone but atleast 8/10 people. Thats sad. For those that love the sport but cant afford it. GET A JOB... You are killing the sport.
The cost of living is rising every single day, and you don't understand why people would rather buy it for less online? Online shopping is the way of the future. I'll stop in and buy something small from my local store, but that's about it. I'm not going to spend $200+tax on a tank I can buy online for $159 with free shipping and no tax.

I make a somewhat decent salary, and I couldn't even afford to play and buy paint for $85+ a case. You're get a job remark really means nothing. Blame the people killing the economy. Paintball is by far one of the most expensive sports out there. It's human nature that someone would want to save money so that they can actually afford to play. This isn't bowling where you go out and spend $300 and get all of the equipment and then pay $15 to play with your friends a couple nights a week. No, you're talking about spending $1000+ to buy gear that's guaranteed to be out-dated in a year and lose damn near all of it's value, and then spend another $90 to buy paint and admission to play the game once a month if you're lucky.
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Old 01-20-2008, 04:40 PM #92
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:04 PM #93
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The cost of living is rising every single day, and you don't understand why people would rather buy it for less online? Online shopping is the way of the future. I'll stop in and buy something small from my local store, but that's about it. I'm not going to spend $200+tax on a tank I can buy online for $159 with free shipping and no tax.
If you, or anyone, buys something online, you will get what you've paid for.

I'll start off by noting that i do all of our repairs. All of them. I see a lot of those tanks that you bought off the internet for $159. I fix them when they break. If you'd bought that at our store, it'd be covered under warranty. You didn't. It's not. I hope you kept that forty bucks that you saved, because that's exactly what you're paying for the repair.

When you buy something off of the internet, you have to immediately hope that it doesn't break, ever.

It's not like you can stuff it into your computer. The internet doesn't have wrenches.
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Old 01-21-2008, 08:17 PM #94
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If you, or anyone, buys something online, you will get what you've paid for.

I'll start off by noting that i do all of our repairs. All of them. I see a lot of those tanks that you bought off the internet for $159. I fix them when they break. If you'd bought that at our store, it'd be covered under warranty. You didn't. It's not. I hope you kept that forty bucks that you saved, because that's exactly what you're paying for the repair.

When you buy something off of the internet, you have to immediately hope that it doesn't break, ever.

It's not like you can stuff it into your computer. The internet doesn't have wrenches.
Well said!!!!
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Old 01-23-2008, 08:18 PM #95
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This is a great thread, because I have a plan in the works for about three years from now.

It will be a combo indoor out door field with a "jumpy castle" area attached. I have ran some of the numbers and do not come anywhere near the prices here. I am curious if anyone can post specific numbers.

What I was looking at is a similar package to this:

A 7 Man PRO Turn-key Package includes:

7 man PRO Smart-BunkerTM standard pack (40 bunkers included);
2 roll of 12' x 300' grommet netting for suggested field size of 100' x 200';
2 rolls of 985 feet of steel cable;
800 Carabiners for netting use;
25 rental marker packages, including gun, mask, hopper and CO2 tank;
20 pcs of turnbuckle; 20 pcs of U bolt; 30 body armors; 30 arm bands;
6 ref masks & jerseys;
2 hand held radar chrono;
1 large table radar chrono;
2 CO2 fill stations;
2 digital scales;
1 set of safety/warning signs;

This package is about 10k, so even with two indoor fields 20k, plus building 160' x 240' x 14' at 75k. So, one indoor field and the building is 85k, another 10 for tables, misc, retail shelving and we are at 100k. Not to say anyone here is wrong, but I would love to see some real details on start up costs.

My location is about three miles out side of a large state university and with 30 miles of a tier one city (pop 3mil) with metro lines that run right into town from the city.

There is still the issue of land, but I am also working a deal for 5 acres @ 10k acre of which 3 will be used for indoor/outdoor field and the other two will be my house. It is agriculture, but within the city limits.

Since all of this is on the drawing board, is this high low or realistic as to what is out there? This thread is definatly perking my interest. Please post in as much detail as possible.

Thanks
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Old 01-24-2008, 11:44 AM #96
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The cost of living is rising every single day, and you don't understand why people would rather buy it for less online? Online shopping is the way of the future. I'll stop in and buy something small from my local store, but that's about it. I'm not going to spend $200+tax on a tank I can buy online for $159 with free shipping and no tax.

I make a somewhat decent salary, and I couldn't even afford to play and buy paint for $85+ a case. You're get a job remark really means nothing. Blame the people killing the economy. Paintball is by far one of the most expensive sports out there. It's human nature that someone would want to save money so that they can actually afford to play. This isn't bowling where you go out and spend $300 and get all of the equipment and then pay $15 to play with your friends a couple nights a week. No, you're talking about spending $1000+ to buy gear that's guaranteed to be out-dated in a year and lose damn near all of it's value, and then spend another $90 to buy paint and admission to play the game once a month if you're lucky.

You are compairing apples to oranges. ( Rec ball - Tourney )
Yes paintball is a very expensive sport if.......IF.....you are a dedicated tourney player paying for everything out of pocket. That means practicing atleast twice a week, driving up to 50+miles to practice, paying for paint and air, and getting better equipment. But at that level you know whats ahead of you, you have an in with your local store if your dedicated to them (usually) and get alittle break on gear and paint. But for your average rec-ball player you buy less expensive gear and shoot less than a case. I am not flaming you here but come on......I can see if you need 3+cases, that is alot for paint, but if you just go out once a month shoot a case of paint you cant complain.
All I am saying is there is a huge difference between types of play and how much the difference is cash wise. And saddly enough online buying is easier to do and may save you a few bucks, but in the long run you will pay for it and your the reason many retail stores shut down. We can talk about this all day. Yes if you want to play tourney, you are going to start at the bottom, suck it up.....support your local store and GET A JOB!!!! If you do not play tourney and play once awhile, get it in your head its not cheap and you are going to pay to play, if not DONT PLAY THE GAME!!!!

SUPPORT THE GAME DONT COMPLAIN
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Old 01-26-2008, 09:55 AM #97
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I do own a field, yes, though perhaps that question was directed at TI. Any business can be profitable, including the paintball business. My field is profitable. It's not paintball that is difficult, it's business. Something like 80% of all businesses go bankrupt within 1 year! Of those surviving the 1st year, 80% of those are gone within 5 years. There is nothing more or less difficult about paintball than any other business you might try to run...the question is, do you have the skill, work ethic, and dedication it takes to actually do something on that level? Do you have a support network to help you with the many various projects you will need to do at the field?

I work almost 40 hours Fri-Sun + I work full time on field projects, odering, other stuff during the week - easily totaling 60-70, sometimes 80 hours a week. If you are about to open a business, any business, are you prepared for this? I think this is what people don't realize, that when you open a field you are really getting married to it. I love what I do. I absolutely love to work and run my own business, but half the people who talk about running a field (or anything for that matter) have no idea what they are in for.

This is all really good advice, but I hope the objective here is not to persuade folks to not "venture out on their own". That is what this country was built on. Having worked for a large company as well as owning my own business, I can tell you guys that are thinking of starting a business (paintball field or whatever) that, yes, it will be the most challenging thing you've ever done, but it will also be the most rewarding. It will be hard work and long hours, but there is something to say for working long and hard for yourself rather than doing it for some nameless, faceless person. Yes, you will work 60,70,80 + hours a week. And even then, when your off, your not really off. There is always that cell phone tied to you and I assure you, it will ring. However, those long hours are intertwined with your life and family life because you make the rules. You can get the kids, make the baseball games and dance recitals because you call the shots. You may have to go back to the office afterwards, but you don't miss the important stuff. If you ever have the opportunity to start a business, I highly recommend you "go for it". Even if the first one isn't successful, the experience will be valuable and will help prepare you for another go...
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Old 01-26-2008, 10:12 AM #98
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This is all really good advice, but I hope the objective here is not to persuade folks to not "venture out on their own". That is what this country was built on. Having worked for a large company as well as owning my own business, I can tell you guys that are thinking of starting a business (paintball field or whatever) that, yes, it will be the most challenging thing you've ever done, but it will also be the most rewarding. It will be hard work and long hours, but there is something to say for working long and hard for yourself rather than doing it for some nameless, faceless person. Yes, you will work 60,70,80 + hours a week. And even then, when your off, your not really off. There is always that cell phone tied to you and I assure you, it will ring. However, those long hours are intertwined with your life and family life because you make the rules. You can get the kids, make the baseball games and dance recitals because you call the shots. You may have to go back to the office afterwards, but you don't miss the important stuff. If you ever have the opportunity to start a business, I highly recommend you "go for it". Even if the first one isn't successful, the experience will be valuable and will help prepare you for another go...
I think the advice was to make sure people understand that they must be prepared and understand what’s involved before they “venture out on their own”. Yes, countries like ours were built by entrepreneurs, but there have been many reckless people who thought they were entrepreneurs, but were really just thinking they want to make it big, only to find out that they have lost everything they had plus are in debt for many years to come because of it.

And I miss many soccer, lacrosse and other kid’s events because I have to be at the field running games on the weekend. Weekdays are a little more flexible, but most of the kids stuff seems to happen on weekends. And if you are in a relationship, it better be a strong one, because being with someone spending all their time on their business and very little with you, isn’t for everyone. Many, many people have lost their mates because they spent too much time on their business.

So we don't want to dissuade people from being entrepreneurs, but we don’t want people to get into business with their eyes wide shut either.
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Old 02-05-2008, 03:28 PM #99
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Originally Posted by MikieW View Post
This is a great thread, because I have a plan in the works for about three years from now.

It will be a combo indoor out door field with a "jumpy castle" area attached. I have ran some of the numbers and do not come anywhere near the prices here. I am curious if anyone can post specific numbers.

What I was looking at is a similar package to this:

A 7 Man PRO Turn-key Package includes:

7 man PRO Smart-BunkerTM standard pack (40 bunkers included);
2 roll of 12' x 300' grommet netting for suggested field size of 100' x 200';
2 rolls of 985 feet of steel cable;
800 Carabiners for netting use;
25 rental marker packages, including gun, mask, hopper and CO2 tank;
20 pcs of turnbuckle; 20 pcs of U bolt; 30 body armors; 30 arm bands;
6 ref masks & jerseys;
2 hand held radar chrono;
1 large table radar chrono;
2 CO2 fill stations;
2 digital scales;
1 set of safety/warning signs;

This package is about 10k, so even with two indoor fields 20k, plus building 160' x 240' x 14' at 75k. So, one indoor field and the building is 85k, another 10 for tables, misc, retail shelving and we are at 100k. Not to say anyone here is wrong, but I would love to see some real details on start up costs.

My location is about three miles out side of a large state university and with 30 miles of a tier one city (pop 3mil) with metro lines that run right into town from the city.

There is still the issue of land, but I am also working a deal for 5 acres @ 10k acre of which 3 will be used for indoor/outdoor field and the other two will be my house. It is agriculture, but within the city limits.

Since all of this is on the drawing board, is this high low or realistic as to what is out there? This thread is definatly perking my interest. Please post in as much detail as possible.

Thanks
I was a contractor before I started my field last year. You might be able to buy a near condemned building that size for that price. Check your zoning and make sure you don't need to be under comercial building codes. If you are, you are talking $750,000+. You might as well make it 18' high with 16' garage doors so semi's and other comercial vehicles can get in and out. You don't even need to put the doors in they can be added by a future owner. Point being maximize your investment. Now you have storage or another field above. The building is a lot more sellable because you didn't limit it's use. + if you want the competive players to come you better buy SupAir and a HPA set up. Oh and you forgot about whole lot of Turf. If you cut too many corners you are going to nip yourself in the rear to put it nicely. Rethink your plan and research it for your sake. Disclaimer; this is just my opinion.
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Old 02-06-2008, 07:01 AM #100
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I happy to get a response, especially about the turf. I will re-check but I had thought that was included. The building price is a standard steel building with three garage doors, minimum insulation. That was a firm quote, but the used building is always an option and was going to be considered.

The important thing I am hearing is that this is not so far out of reach. Not one person came down on the plan to say it was crazy.

This plan is still 3-4 years off and ranks slightly higher on the real scale than a plan written on a bar napkin.

I am sure the location and plan are sound and I do not plan to cut corners, but at the same time, more research needs to be done, because even at this price I am sure it can bankrupt people and I need to make sure the market continues to surge.
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Old 02-06-2008, 08:48 AM #101
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Originally Posted by MikieW View Post
I happy to get a response, especially about the turf. I will re-check but I had thought that was included. The building price is a standard steel building with three garage doors, minimum insulation. That was a firm quote, but the used building is always an option and was going to be considered.

The important thing I am hearing is that this is not so far out of reach. Not one person came down on the plan to say it was crazy.

This plan is still 3-4 years off and ranks slightly higher on the real scale than a plan written on a bar napkin.

I am sure the location and plan are sound and I do not plan to cut corners, but at the same time, more research needs to be done, because even at this price I am sure it can bankrupt people and I need to make sure the market continues to surge.

I'm not sure which market you are talking about here... the paintball market is not surging. It is lagging.
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Old 02-07-2008, 06:38 AM #102
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By surging I simply mean getting the word out that this sport is here. The fact that most sporting goods have more selection and usually a section devoted to paint, supplies and guns.

It is no longer an fringe sport but is slowing becoming more mainstream.

Before plinking the cash down on any venture a real market study would be done.
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Old 02-07-2008, 10:02 AM #103
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By surging I simply mean getting the word out that this sport is here. The fact that most sporting goods have more selection and usually a section devoted to paint, supplies and guns.
Actually even the big box stores and chain sports stores have started to carry less and less paintball product.
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Old 02-24-2008, 09:26 PM #104
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i own a paintball course in Faribault, MN. I am here to let people know, along with all of the other field owners who know, that starting a paintball business is a lot harder than one would think. I began developing a business plan with my brother, we already had the land because our step father was a farmer. So we started to lay out our initial start-up costs. The first thing you must do in this process is go into detail. Things you will need money for: Proshop, netting, insurance, 50+ rental markers, product, bathrooms, concessions(if in remote location), high pressure compressor, fill stations, registers, referees, chronographs, paintballs, field development, telephone poles, steel wire for netting, sup air ball bunkers, equipment to work on field, internet site, and set money for advertising. I am sure there are things I am missing but even after that you have to understand that you will end up working 80+ hours a week, if you want to be a legitimate profitable business. But there are things that you can do to better your success. Be the most affordable paintball store in your area, which will help you to have loyal customers. You have to seperate players by skill, so basically you can't have new players playing with tournament paintballers, because anyone who doesn't have a good time is automatically hurting your business by word of mouth.

To All
What are somethings that you have done as a paintball field owner to increase business?
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Old 03-22-2008, 11:58 PM #105
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This is a A++++++++++++++++++++++ thread guys!!!!
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