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Old 11-05-2007, 11:37 PM #1
Linuss
 
 
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Pump markers and YOU (A guide to your first pump marker)

"What gun should I get?" I know that question seeped into your head one day when you first contemplated about your jump into the pump world.

"I already know that" is what you are currently thinking. "Why must this guy explain the obvious?" "Why does he keep putting my thoughts into quotes" "This is scaring me"

SO, what's the answer?


YOU CHOOSE! What marker you end up getting is based solely on one thing: YOU. If you don't like how a marker looks or performs, then it really doesn't matter what others think.

But, I'm going to help you with this decision anyhow.

THE REST OF THIS POST IS MY OPINION


First and foremost, you need to ask yourself "What type of pump will I be playing?"

Do you want to play stock class, open class, or modified stock?

Stock class is loosely defined as a marker using a 12g CO2 powerlette, and having anywhere between 10-20 paintballs in a horizontal feedtube, much like in this picture.




Open class is defined as a marker that uses a hopper, either pocket or normal sized, and a constant air tank, ranging anywhere from 3.5 oz to a scuba tank

Modified stock is just that: Modified stock class. It's generally where you use a constant air tank and a horizontal feed tube, though many people consider 12g with a hopper modified stock as well.

================================================== =================================

Why each style of play?

Stock class is for those seeking the ultimate challange. What is more challenging then being restricted to 10 balls in your feed and 30 shots in your 12g before you have to change? (While still using a marker of course, and not that of the Sharpie nature)


Open class is for those seeking to restrict their firepower and therefore increase their challenge level, but still be on a "competitive" field. I put that in quotations because SC players are still plenty competitive. OC is also chosen by people who want to keep their pump set up as close to their semi set up as possible, thereby making the transition from one to the other easy.


Modified stock is the middle ground of the 2. Dont feel like changing 12g, but still want a stick (horizontal) feed? Go modified.


================================================== ==================================

Now, on to the markers. I am including prices along with the markers... expect to spend somewhere in between those amounts, but also expect to spend less or more depending.

There are 3 main valve configurations in pumps, and they are Nelson, Sheridan, and Sterling.
Click each link to see a diagram (Provided by jhyan)
Nelson
Sheridan
STERLINGS


Nelson based pumps

CCI(Phantom) $100-$400+

The most known pump marker is the Phantom, and for good reason. It has been around for decades (Read: 2) and its manufacturer stands by his product 100%.

Now, there are many different configurations you can do with the Phantom, ranging from SC to MS to OC.

The different configurations are as follows:
OC-BBA: Open class- Back bottle adapter. It is an open class set-up that places the tank at the rear of the marker.



OC-VA: Open class- Vertical air. An open class marker that places the asa to the front of the trigger.


SC- Stock class. Uses a horizontal feed with the 12g bucket changer at the rear of the marker.


VSC- Vertical stock class. This the the most popular configuration. It places the 12g changer/ASA to the front of the trigger, and uses a horizontal feed.


Keep in mind that in both the SC and VSC models, you can take off the 12g changer and put a constant air tank on. And on the OC models you can choose to put a 12g changer in the ASA.


Carter Machine$500+ Nelson based

Carter Machine is another air-smith who hand makes his own markers, the most famous being the Buzzard and Comp. They operate in the same manner as the Phantom, and the only differences between the Buzzard and Phantom, besides $300, are the looks and how they are made.

Buzzard


Comp


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Trracer/Maverick/Hammer (and other clones)$20-$80 Nelson based

These are, by nature, open class back bottle markers. They work in the same principle of the Phantom and the Buzzard. They are pretty decent starter markers, and at a great price.





Tippmann

Tippmann SL-68II (2), is the younger brother of the SL-68. It has a gas-through grip, much like what is seen on todays Mini's. It's a great marker, and very durable. What else would you expect from Tippmann?




/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


COCKER BASED PUMP (AKA "Sniper") $50-$400+

This is the most popular open class marker. Reason is because it is fairly easy to come across old (and new) auto-cockers for fairly cheap and convert them to pumps. They also resemble a semi-automatic marker the most, for those wishing to keep close to the same set up.

I wont go into detail about the different models, because, well, they are limitless.

Just keep in mind that most Cocker-based pumps aren't too efficient on 12g and if you choose to use a stick feed, you generally have to jerry rig one up yourself.





////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

CCM Markers (AKA God's gifts to cocker lovers) $300+
These are basically cocker-based pumps with a lot of loving put into them. They are made by CCM (Chipley Custom Machine)

The 2 most popular designs are those of the "S5" and "S6", but they also have the J2 and the SS25



All 4 markers look a lot alike, and perform likewise, so I wont go in to too much detail about them. If you want to learn more, contact CCM at chipleymachine.com


/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

SHERIDAN BASED MARKERS$50-$500+ Sheridan based

These are the markers that are either from Benjamin Sheridan, or based off of their designs, such as those from PMI or Palmers Pursuit Shop.

The most recognizable one of this family is the PGP, from Benjamin Sheridan.



The original PGP with a P68SC


The PGP 2k1 (notice the longer barrel and different rear-end feed)





Many (Most) of the other markers in the Sheridan family are pretty close in looks to the original PGP.

Other models include the PGP2k1(PGP revamped for 2001), P68SC (Big brother to the PGP) PMI-1 (PMI's answer to the P68) and the KP2 ("shotgun")


Palmers Pursuit Shop is an air-smith who specializes in Sheridan based markers, and even makes a few himself. The most notable one is the Super Stocker (or SS)




//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

STERLINGS

I honestly don't know too much about these markers. I'll leave for someone else to add on about these.



/==/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/==/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/==/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/==/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/==/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/=/==/=/

So again, it is ultimately YOUR CHOICE on what marker it is you get, and that also depends on what style of paintball you want to choose or how much you want to spend.

There are many other pumps in existence, but I only covered the most popular ones.


If you have any questions, comments, additions, or subtractions, feel free to PM me

Last edited by Linuss : 11-08-2007 at 01:49 AM.
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Old 11-05-2007, 11:56 PM #2
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nicely done...possibly a sticky???

but you forgot to mention the highest selling pump of all time :unfortunatelynododgy: the BE TALON
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Old 11-06-2007, 12:21 AM #3
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Well done and a good intro to pumps. Definitely sticky material
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Old 11-06-2007, 12:59 AM #4
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Snipers are a.k.a. Pump Cockers, and who said they're bad on 12g CO2? With proper spring selection and tuning, you can achieve 40+ shots off a single cartridge.
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Old 11-06-2007, 01:08 AM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesko View Post
Snipers are a.k.a. Pump Cockers,
No, I was right the first time. Snipers are made by WGP and are an official marker, while "pump cockers" are auto-cockers with pump kits, and I put the word "sniper" in qoutaiton, because many people confuse them for snipers, like you just did.


Quote:
and who said they're bad on 12g CO2? With proper spring selection and tuning, you can achieve 40+ shots off a single cartridge.
Yes, possible, with a little work. But I was talking about a "tuned at the manufacturer" autotcocker. Most people who go the rout of auto-cocker pump don't care too much about 12g efficiency because they wont be using 12g, so they dont touch the springing (speaking from experience here) And notice how I used the word "most", meaning "not all".
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Old 11-06-2007, 06:16 AM #6
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good thread, defintely sticky worthy.
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Old 11-06-2007, 07:48 AM #7
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The phantom, carters, trracer/maverick, etc... are all nelson based pumps and operate in the same manner. Might want to add that

Snipers were the original pump marker made by WGP before the autococker, same with Sniper II's and III's. Today, autocockers modified to pumps are generally referred to as Sniper II's.

Desert Ducks, Lapco pumps, all the different Sheridan markers, splatmaster, 007, PPS's new pump...

Last edited by Striker9 : 11-07-2007 at 11:58 AM.
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Old 11-06-2007, 05:25 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linuss View Post
No, I was right the first time. Snipers are made by WGP and are an official marker, while "pump cockers" are auto-cockers with pump kits, and I put the word "sniper" in qoutaiton, because many people confuse them for snipers, like you just did.




Yes, possible, with a little work. But I was talking about a "tuned at the manufacturer" autotcocker. Most people who go the rout of auto-cocker pump don't care too much about 12g efficiency because they wont be using 12g, so they dont touch the springing (speaking from experience here) And notice how I used the word "most", meaning "not all".
Sigh, you have much to learn.
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Old 11-06-2007, 06:34 PM #9
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We spend so much time trying to get new players to call them snipers, calling them pump cockers is just going to make it harder. Put a pump on it, and it's a sniper, period.

Oh and who said that snipers were built as pumps and sniper II's were modified is not right. WGP made snipers, sniper II's and sniper III's, all came from the factory as pumps.
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Old 11-06-2007, 06:55 PM #10
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Originally Posted by Tesko View Post
Sigh, you have much to learn.
it all depends on how picky you care to be in your nomenclature.

As you already know, 12g efficiency is greatly dependent on whether you have a pre or post 2K body and the valving. It's not difficult for someone to tune one to run on 12g's, but it does require a bit of effort and knowledge which the average kid probably isn't going to do.
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Old 11-06-2007, 07:04 PM #11
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It need some work, but it is sticky worthy...
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Old 11-06-2007, 07:30 PM #12
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heheh...my idea

it be stickee TYEM!!1!

EDIT: now contact a mod so he can review, then sticky it
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Old 11-06-2007, 07:40 PM #13
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Any Autococker with a pump kit is a Sniper. "If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.......Its a ****in' duck!!"

CCM
http://cgi.ebay.com/Pump-Marker-CCM-...QQcmdZViewItem

Sheridan
http://www.vm68.com/stuff/sheridan_r...ion_guide.html

Palmer
"makes a few?" More then a few. Try a **** load! Your also forgetting the Blazer pump, and as mentioned earlier, the "Pyre." Palmer's new pump based around the Blazer body.

Carter
Carter is also still making Boxgun's, and Ducks. If he like you that is. Not for everyone.

Mongo
He is making the Redux.
http://www.desertduckdd68.com/31705.html

"Trracer/Maverick/Hammer"
Your better off just saying Nelson, and describing what a Nelson is. As also mentioned earlier, pointing out the Phantom is also a Nelson.

I would say something along the lines of: "Nelsons can usually be identified by having a single tube, and air entering from the back of the marker from either a air fitting, back-bottle, or Drop-Out 12Gram Changer."

http://www.zdspb.com/media/tech/animations/nelson.gif
/\Please rehost, or leave as a link if your going to use this image./\

http://www.vm68.com/stuff/bore_vs_breech_drop.html

http://www.vintagerex.com/cgi-bin/sc...=find&for=Pump
/\List of most pump markers. Not just Nelsons. Carter is always updating it./\


Sterling

http://www.zdspb.com/media/tech/animations/sterling.gif
/\Please rehost, or leave as a link if your going to use this image./\

http://www.geocities.com/lea_wu/sterling/sterl_qa.htm



Thats all I got for now. If I remember anymore, I'll post it.

Edit,

Forgot about Striker9 saying the Lapco.

http://www.lapcopaintball.com/store/...roducts_id=176

Last edited by XxAltecxX : 11-06-2007 at 10:06 PM.
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Old 11-06-2007, 09:12 PM #14
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Wow... I do this as a favor and I end up getting a few jags attacking me... thats fantastic.

Look at my original post, and you will see a couple things.

1st--- "THE REST OF THIS POST IS MY OPINION"

Meaning DONT attack me for me wanting to call something one thing and you wanting to call it another. A Sniper is made by WGP, a pump-cocker (not to be mistaken for a "pump-autococker") is not.


2nd---"There are many other pumps in existence, but I only covered the most popular ones."

I never set out to make the most comprehensive list of pump markers available, just the most common ones you will see, and basic characteristics about them.



Altec, as for your part in saying "You would be better off saying nelson based pump"... wrong. I split Phantoms from Buzzards from Trracers and it's clones for a reason. They are not the same gun, and are made by different companies. Hell, you contradict yourself by saying I should have elaborated on Sheridans and Palmers.... they are ALL Sheridans after all....

And why did you put in an Ebay link?

I didn't put in the Duck because it's a modification for the Phantom, just like I didn't put pics of stick feeds on "snipers".

The new Grey Ghost is just that, new and not mainstream, which is why it wasn't included.

If you want something added, add it without being an ***. Re-do your post with info on the things you want added if you must.
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Old 11-06-2007, 10:28 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linuss View Post
Altec, as for your part in saying "You would be better off saying nelson based pump"... wrong. I split Phantoms from Buzzards from Trracers and it's clones for a reason. They are not the same gun, and are made by different companies. Hell, you contradict yourself by saying I should have elaborated on Sheridans and Palmers.... they are ALL Sheridans after all....

I don't think you understood what I was saying. Instead of naming three Nelson's, and other clones, you'd be better off saying Nelson's in general, so players know that they're many styles out there. Its why I also linked the .Gif, Bore Drop vs. Breech Drop, and Vintage rex. Just to show the vast number of Nelson based markers, and the differences.

As far as contradicting myself, I never said delete the part about the phantoms, I said point out the Phantom is also a Nelson. Nothing more.


And why did you put in an Ebay link?

Thats the only real place CCM has info about the S5 Basic. Thinking about it now, I could have also added Talfuchre's review.

http://www.pumpenstein.com/wordpress/?p=29/

I didn't put in the Duck because it's a modification for the Phantom, just like I didn't put pics of stick feeds on "snipers".


I did not say Duckslide, I said Redux, Boxgun, and Duck. When I said "Duck," I was implying the Kamikaze Shooter DD68 (aka: Desert Duck).


The new Grey Ghost is just that, new and not mainstream, which is why it wasn't included.

But you add the Sterling? By no means is the Sterling mainstream. Yes, it has age, and two companies under its belt, but most people have never held, or seen one in person.

If you want something added, add it without being an ***. Re-do your post with info on the things you want added if you must.

I was not trying to be a ***. I apologize if it seemed like I was. If it was my quote about ducks, or the comment about Palmer making a **** load of brass marker, then again I do apologize. One of the reasons I like the Nation is because I can say things like "****" without staff, or members having a heart-attack.

Everything I would like added is in my first post (Besides Talfuchre's review). Many things are in links. Some great info in those links
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Old 11-06-2007, 10:58 PM #16
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I don't see one person attacking you in this thread. If you can't take constructive criticism, that's your problem.

You said the carter is the same as the phantom, save $300 and looks/materials. It only makes sense to say that the rest of the nelson based pumps are the same. Why don't you split the pumps up into sections based on their valve design? Sheridan and nelson...

Why include the Sterling if you have no information on it? Might as well throw in the other markers you're missing.
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Old 11-07-2007, 12:25 AM #17
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Sorry linuss, I wasn't being a dick, I was merely asking that if this gets stickied it be correct.

Wouldn't hurt to post gifs of the operations of the markers... these are the same as the ones from zdspb (since I was the one who emailed them to the zdspb guy). Just copy the image and post it up...

Sheridan:

Nelson:

Sterling:
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Old 11-07-2007, 12:26 AM #18
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Old 11-07-2007, 11:54 AM #19
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Snipers should be under the Sheridan section, no?
The Sterling is a mix between the nelson and sheridan designs.

Could add the AM Illusion, splatmaster, and Tippmann's pumps.

Last edited by Striker9 : 11-07-2007 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 11-07-2007, 01:49 PM #20
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Ok, time for my 2 cents.
Linuss you’re Da man!!! I think this was a long overdue thread and I thank you for making it. I see at least 5 threads a week asking this very question. This will give those people a great start at looking into pump play, I vote for sticky.
We all need to understand that this is an opinion guide as all of the threads before it asking which pump is best. I think Linuss did a great job explaining the most common pumps used and their workings. Personally if you know which autococker is a sniper or which pumps are nelson based then you probably don’t need this guide. Please remember Linuss must have put a bit of time into this gathering info and pictures so lets be kind. One of the reasons I started to play pump is because how nice everyone is and the way we treat each other.
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Old 11-07-2007, 09:55 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mheinlein View Post
Ok, time for my 2 cents.
Linuss you’re Da man!!! I think this was a long overdue thread and I thank you for making it. I see at least 5 threads a week asking this very question. This will give those people a great start at looking into pump play, I vote for sticky.
We all need to understand that this is an opinion guide as all of the threads before it asking which pump is best. I think Linuss did a great job explaining the most common pumps used and their workings. Personally if you know which autococker is a sniper or which pumps are nelson based then you probably don’t need this guide. Please remember Linuss must have put a bit of time into this gathering info and pictures so lets be kind. One of the reasons I started to play pump is because how nice everyone is and the way we treat each other.
once again, my idea...

...

with insight from snatchforme

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...5#post41335235
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