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Old 09-24-2007, 12:12 AM #1
Keiser Sosei
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Memphis Paintball Park

I am pretty sure that the people that own fields in this area have all lost their minds. After my experience today a the memphispaintballpark I have to speak out.

What happened you ask?

Well I took my team to Memphis paintball park (1hr 30 min) from where we live. We got there and the airball field was being set up. Everyone got ready and bought paint then after staking a few of the bunkers that were falling over we played a game with a local team there. After that game a few people went to get paint and by the time they got back most of the bunkers had either fallen over or were deflated or completely deflated. So we found the blower and aired up the bunkers for them since there were no field employees around. Again the bunkers were back down within minutes. I knew they had more bunkers so I went inside and asked the manager to set up some other bunkers. He just directed me to where they were and sent me on my way. So I went and found the bunkers which were in a shed by the field. They all had holes in them large enough to put your hand in. Since that was a bad plan we went ahead and tried to blow the bunkers already out up once again. Didn't work, so then another team member went and asked the employees to at least stake the bunkers down and blow them up one more time. With a little hesitation they came out to blow them up. On the way onto the field the manager at the time and to be specific Andrew Zorn told us if we wanted to play on the airball field we were going to have to blow it up ourselves after this time or else go play hyperball. Now I could understand if we were the only people there and there were no workers but this is a fully staffed field. Where was the staff you ask? Inside watching football and messing around on the computer. Why would you ask your customers to do your work after they paid $60 to play there? Why have an attitude about it when its your fault you didn't take care of a "new" field (keep in mind this is an 07 NPPL field). Whats worse is I know for a fact they have better fields not newer but bunkers that stay inflated. Why not have those bunkers at your field rather than bunkers that do not work? Why run off customers? Why pay people to watch football and play?

On to the paint..... Evil for $60 per case. In the one game we played I personally shot a guy 3 times in the mask and they all bounced off ( I know this cause he told me after the game). After asking a few people about the paint I found out that it is leftover from over a year ago. The paint was ordered last Sept for the 06 winter. WTF? Why sacrifice customer satisfaction for a little money? I can understand making money as a business but come on. At least get paint ever other month or so maybe even ever quarter. Would it really cause you to lose much money? 1 skid a time instead of 4.

Unless something changes in a big way I will not return and neither will my team. The local teams have already left. You guys will soon have nothing but a rec field and if thats all you want then fine, but why not just tell us you don't want "tournament" players there?
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:23 AM #2
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2 weeks ago wasn't any better, actually. We got there and the airball field was not up and ready. David told us that the blower was broken. So we waited until they brought another blower out. Now keep in mind that they had quite a few staff members on hand. When a working blower was brought out to the park, one of the staff members brought it over to us, put it down, and walked away. Watching football > doing what they are paid for? They expected us to set the field up after driving over an hour to play there. That wasn't exactly the team practice we were looking for.
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Old 09-24-2007, 12:26 AM #3
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I am the other team member that went inside the second time and all that I can say is that I am shocked by the way the feild was ran. I was under the impression that the owner and staff liked tournament ball and wanted it to grow in this area. It seems it was less than a month ago they were talking about getting their airball going in a positive way and maybe hosting a new tournament series. As for the paint I guess there is no question to why that evil never breaks like any other evil we shoot(even from the store)
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Old 09-24-2007, 10:45 AM #4
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This is Eric at EZ. Sorry to hear you had a bad time but you know the deal and if you forgot, I will refresh your memory.

The "torney side" of the filed which includes the airball and the fixed pavilion is there for the use of tourny guys as a courtesy. They pay their entry, buy paint at a discount and ref themselves once approved by the field as competent. What you get for your money is Evil paint at $40 a case (less than wholesale) entry for $10 and all day air for $10. Those prices are way below field rates and thus, you earn the privilage to play there by helping yourself.

The paint was probably a little bouncy, I agree. I can tell you this, however, we order paint once every 2 weeks, 220 cases at a time. None of it is ever more than a month old. You think we stack it up in corners just to let it sit around? Come on now. If it was too brittle, you would complain about that too. We do the best on paint as KEE allows. They send us paint, we use it. Enough said.

Both I and David appreciate you patronage. You are good guys and represent paintball in the Mid-South well. We welcome you back and hope you return. Come earlier than 2PM on Sunday afetr the field has been open 2 hours next time. Select the bunkers you want and set up a field to your liking. Check out a few bunkers and take them home and patch them. That would help also. It will be what the tourney guys make it. All we are willing to do is buy a new $7000 field once every 2 years. Keep in mind that the field did over 10K in business this weekend and you were about $200 of it. And a a very thin profit margin at that. Help us and it will get better. Complain, flame in public and cry and it will stay the same. Matters very little to the overall health of Memphis Paintball Park.
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Old 09-24-2007, 11:05 AM #5
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The deal is and has always been that you set up the field the way you want it. Yes, you guys did in fact break another Red Max 8001 blower (cost $479) which David didn't even bat an eye about. Just bought you another. I guess the guys working there who "dropped off" the blower thought you were aware you are supposed to do it yourself so they assumed they had helped you.

We could always make the "touney field" as labor intensive as the rest of the 8 fields. The would encompass another full time ref, showing up early to stake out, air up, clean and patch to field, cut the grass and replace netting. Stay after and throw away trash, wipe off bunkers and put it away. All for 7 guys who might spend $300. Can't happen with the prices you pay. Let us kwon if that is what you want. I think we incorrectly assumed you wanted a deal and were willing to help make a nice place for yourselves.

Hope to see you next week. Call me if you have questions. (901) 384-7200 This should be the last place you come to whine. Not professional or helpful.
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Old 09-24-2007, 01:59 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZ Air View Post
This is Eric at EZ. Sorry to hear you had a bad time but you know the deal and if you forgot, I will refresh your memory.

The "torney side" of the filed which includes the airball and the fixed pavilion is there for the use of tourny guys as a courtesy. They pay their entry, buy paint at a discount and ref themselves once approved by the field as competent. What you get for your money is Evil paint at $40 a case (less than wholesale) entry for $10 and all day air for $10. Those prices are way below field rates and thus, you earn the privilage to play there by helping yourself.

The paint was probably a little bouncy, I agree. I can tell you this, however, we order paint once every 2 weeks, 220 cases at a time. None of it is ever more than a month old. You think we stack it up in corners just to let it sit around? Come on now. If it was too brittle, you would complain about that too. We do the best on paint as KEE allows. They send us paint, we use it. Enough said.

Both I and David appreciate you patronage. You are good guys and represent paintball in the Mid-South well. We welcome you back and hope you return. Come earlier than 2PM on Sunday afetr the field has been open 2 hours next time. Select the bunkers you want and set up a field to your liking. Check out a few bunkers and take them home and patch them. That would help also. It will be what the tourney guys make it. All we are willing to do is buy a new $7000 field once every 2 years. Keep in mind that the field did over 10K in business this weekend and you were about $200 of it. And a a very thin profit margin at that. Help us and it will get better. Complain, flame in public and cry and it will stay the same. Matters very little to the overall health of Memphis Paintball Park.
So, for $60 per case you expect us to do that much work? Part of the reason why we left APP to play in Memphis was because of the amount of work that we wouldn't have to do. But it turns out that we would have to drive over an hour AND do the same amount of work. That is not worth it at all, especially considering how much cheaper APP was for us. Either way, we get less time to practice because of it.


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Originally Posted by EZ Air View Post
The deal is and has always been that you set up the field the way you want it. Yes, you guys did in fact break another Red Max 8001 blower (cost $479) which David didn't even bat an eye about. Just bought you another. I guess the guys working there who "dropped off" the blower thought you were aware you are supposed to do it yourself so they assumed they had helped you.
No, we did not break a blower. I have no idea where you got that from. 2 weeks ago we got there and the field was not up because the blower was broken. How did we break a blower before we even arrived?

I talked to our captain already, and you never said that you wanted us to set the field up for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EZ Air
We could always make the "touney field" as labor intensive as the rest of the 8 fields. The would encompass another full time ref, showing up early to stake out, air up, clean and patch to field, cut the grass and replace netting. Stay after and throw away trash, wipe off bunkers and put it away. All for 7 guys who might spend $300. Can't happen with the prices you pay. Let us kwon if that is what you want. I think we incorrectly assumed you wanted a deal and were willing to help make a nice place for yourselves.
Maybe you should hire another full time ref with a little of that 10K per weekend you are talking about. What do you think a group of tournament players would think about Memphis Paintball Park if they showed up and there was no airball field, just bunkers and stakes laying in the grass? I'm not talking about just us, but the possibility that a team might drive a little bit to give your place a shot. And when they got there, they would not be pleased if they had to deal with the same stuff that we did, and they probably would not return.
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:29 PM #7
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Yes, for $60 case of Evil, entry and air, we do expect you to do that much. Sorry Nate was not there to hold your hand this weekend. My appologies on who may have broken the blower. It was, in fact, some tourney guys because they are who use it. What escapes your thoughts is that David did buy a new one. No complaints. By the way, it cost more than he made from your team all year.

We do hire refs and emplyees as needed. What we don't do is throw good money after bad. If the airball field was profitable, we would be all about it. Fact is, we lose money there. We are aware the field is old and needs replacing. If we thought investing $7500 in a new field would pay off, it would be here tomorrow. If all the money tourney guys spent this year was added up, the total would not pay for the field, nets and poles. Profit would be about a third of what we spend. As I said before, the only reason we have it is as a courtesy to you "team guys" who think everything is about you and somehow think you make "paintball" better.

By the way, if another tourney team did "show up", wanted to "pay up" (entry, air and paint at our prices), they would get professional treatment. What we are doing for you is a courtesy. You have to do your share. I am sure most aduts would agree.
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Old 09-24-2007, 02:56 PM #8
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Not sure why you guys are even talking to these clowns or going to their field. There must not be any paintball fields in the area for an owenr to have that kind of attitude.

Take your money and business to a field that cares -
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Old 09-24-2007, 03:01 PM #9
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Well there seems to be a misunderstanding because as far as I know setting up the field was not our responsibility. I have never heard any mention of it at all. If we would have known that and an agreement would have been worked out before hand we would not be on here complaining. Andrew was not exactly polite when filling us in yesterday which kind of added to our frustration too. That doesn't really matter though because like I said none of us had any idea setting up the airball field was our responsibility. I was not there two weeks ago with the rest of the team but every other time we have been there it has already been set up and there is another team playing on it. Which I guess they set it up prior to use getting there
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Old 09-24-2007, 05:12 PM #10
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Hello to all. This is David Zorn, owner of Paintball Park Memphis. I will try to address all of your concerns and explain my perspective on the situation. As for the airball field and the problems that you had with keeping the bunkers inflated, the new Sup-Air fields have self bleeding fill caps. These caps are designed to keep the bunkers from overinflating due to heat and sun. If a bunker does overinflate, the cap will relieve air. These caps are adjustable so if one bunker is deflating faster than another, you can adjust the cap to make it bleed less. These caps also leak! They may be a necessary evil because in direct sun in the middle of the summer, we would be blowing out seems without them. Definitely a pain. As for the blower situation. Someone from your team was using the blower and is ceased up. Someone put regular gas in the gas oil mixture motor. I don't know who put the gas in it. I just know that I expected my brand new $500 blower to work. I did not get mad at anyone. I simply went and got another blower that day. The field is also about a year old and does have some wear and tear. The bunkers in the shed you were sent to are not ones that we usually use. They are from old fields and we have had trouble with mice chewing holes in them to nest inside. We did have more NPPL bunkers that have no holes but Shawn Zorn (not Andrew) didn't know where they were. My appologies. I would be annoyed by blowing up a bunker just to realize it had a hole in it. As for the deal that we have worked out for your team and other teams like yourself, if you don't like it, either express your problems to me personally or don't come to my field. I have an airball field and give you discounts because I like tournament paintball. I have tried many different sponsorship programs for teams like yours. Free entry, free air, and $60 a case for evil is cheap. If you don't think so then we are not going to see eye to eye on this issue. While I do not agree with everything that Eric (my dad) has posted, he is right about what I expect from you. I have employees at my park that set up and blow up the airball field before they go about their daily responsibilities with my rec players. I do not have an employee to stand next to you guys and hold your hand throughout the day. If that is what you want, I can hire more people and the cost will be reflected in your price. If I had another employee dedicated to you experienced and capable players, I would loose money at your current rates. As for spending money that my field makes on buying you a new airball field, I do not throw good money after bad. I have debated several times taking the airball field down all together. Why? Because my field makes it's money off of recreational players and private parties. It is because of teams like yours that the field is even still standing. I have never had a problem with you in the past and you have always been eager to help. You are by far the best of all the tournament players that I have. If you have a problem with my field or with me, let me know. I believe you have my cell phone number from times in the past when you needed special treatment and I was willing. I am sorry to take a defensive standpoint when you had a bad experience at my field but problems are all I ever seem to get out of tournament paintball players these days and I am wondering more and more if it is worth the headache. I would definitely like to talk to you because any problem that I can fix, I would prefer to do so. Last but not least is the paint issue. I get the best paint that I can buy so I can limit the problems that you guys are having. One thing that I can guarantee you is that you have never gotten a case of paint from me that is more than a month old. That is a fact! This is a predicament that paintball fields all over the world have. Too bouncy vs. too brittle. I make requests to the factory but in the end, I get what I get. It is usually great but I often have problems toward the end of the summer when the eggheads at the plants think that they need to start thickening up shells for the winter. My paintballs are custom made for me and are shipped to me shortly after production unlike many other paintballs that might sit at the distributers causing a longer lead time untill they are actually in customers hands. I'm sorry you had problems but yesterday was hot as hell which causes bouncy paint. Once again, if you would like to talk further about this, you know how to find me. I will not be posting again because I think that most of this internet arguing is pretty futile.

David Zorn
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Old 09-24-2007, 06:35 PM #11
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I still dont understand how offering 40-60 dollar paint and charging 20 for air/entry entitles you to free labor.

I pay $40 (paint, entry, air) a weekend at my field. The bunkers are ready to go when we get there, refs there to work, and a damn nice owner. The owner happens to play PSP Open Xball so when he has spare time he coaches teams and gives them all the help he can.

Explain to me why an owner cant care just the little bit to offer reffing and have a field ready for PAYING customers. I dont care how much of a deal you offer.
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Old 09-24-2007, 08:12 PM #12
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The blower was broken by someone else entirely, you are a liar.

As for not making money from us. How many guns have I personally bought from your store? How much gear have I bought? How much paint have I bought? It is well into the thousands of dollars.

Guess how much more of my money you will be getting. $0.00

Thanks for handling this well and starting a name calling thread. I simply stated what happened and that you guys run a ****ty business. This could have been avoided if Andrew would have had a better attitude when talking to me at the park Sunday.
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Old 09-24-2007, 09:15 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZ Air View Post
What you get for your money is Evil paint at $40 a case (less than wholesale) entry for $10 and all day air for $10. Those prices are way below field rates
WTF?
I disagree
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Old 09-24-2007, 09:55 PM #14
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Just to clear up the blower issue, MY team was using the blower when it broke. I had thought all was forgiven and we were assured that it was not our fault, but if there are still issues my guys and I will be more than happy to compensate.

I, and most of my team, consider David's deal to tourney players in Memphis to be superb. Sure, the current field is showing its age, but in my eyes it's no big deal that you have to blow up a few bunkers every 3 or 4 games when you consider that all you have to pay for is paint. On top of that, I've heard that there's an 08 x-ball field on its way after cup.

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Old 09-24-2007, 10:09 PM #15
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I guess they run things differently over their on the west side of TN. I've been to multiple fields across the southeast, midwest, northeast, you name it and i have never had to put up with anything remotely similar to what these guys are talkin about. If you guys ever happen to find yourself in east tennessee i promise that our service will be first class to this garbage.
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Old 09-24-2007, 10:25 PM #16
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Just to clear up the blower issue, MY team was using the blower when it broke. I had thought all was forgiven and we were assured that it was not our fault, but if there are still issues my guys and I will be more than happy to compensate.

I, and most of my team, consider David's deal to tourney players in Memphis to be superb. Sure, the current field is showing its age, but in my eyes it's no big deal that you have to blow up a few bunkers every 3 or 4 games when you consider that all you have to pay for is paint. On top of that, I've heard that there's an 08 x-ball field on its way after cup.
It would be different but the field was coming down between every game. We only got to play 1 game. I am not talking about bunkers getting low. They were completley deflating, its not the bleedoffs either there are tears in the seams that you can put your arm in.


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I guess they run things differently over their on the west side of TN. I've been to multiple fields across the southeast, midwest, northeast, you name it and i have never had to put up with anything remotely similar to what these guys are talkin about. If you guys ever happen to find yourself in east tennessee i promise that our service will be first class to this garbage.
We played the CFOA in Kingsport the first of the month and I have to say it was a nice experience. Thanks for the support.
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Old 09-24-2007, 10:31 PM #17
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Old 09-24-2007, 10:33 PM #18
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It would be different but the field was coming down between every game. We only got to play 1 game. I am not talking about bunkers getting low. They were completley deflating, its not the bleedoffs either there are tears in the seams that you can put your arm in.
Hmm... can't say I've ever noticed those kind of tears before. Last Sunday(16th) we were playing four games between blowing up bunkers, and we could have feasibly done two or three more.

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Old 09-25-2007, 12:05 AM #19
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Hmm... can't say I've ever noticed those kind of tears before. Last Sunday(16th) we were playing four games between blowing up bunkers, and we could have feasibly done two or three more.
Well than things have gotten severely worse very quickly. $60 for a case of paint that shoots NO better than a $40 case of stinger, driving over an hour to play, having to set up the field, and then having to air it up after every game is not a good deal unless you are a complete idiot. If we were getting a deal there like teams in the past have ($35 paint/air/fee) then airing up the field wouldn't be so bad. No the field has not always been this bad but it is now and they obviously do not care enough about it to get a new one or fix that one. I would think someone that "loves" paintball as much as the Zorn's do would want to make it a great experience and help it grow, especially airball. So it seems we are going to find somewhere else to play that is more reasonable and doesn't want us to do their work.
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Old 09-25-2007, 12:29 AM #20
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I was there sunday. The evil paint that i had just got from inside was dirty and ****ty. I went to my car and got a case of cfoa paint that i got for 40 dollers.(been in the trunk for 2 months now). and it shot better then evil.

I really didnt care becuse i wanted to play paintball. But after playing one game and the field falling down it wasnt any fun. And us being told to stop *****ing and air up the field after we overpaid for paint was funny.

considering that its 90 dollers a case for walk ons plus the 5 or 7 dollers fee and then the air fills. I guess you guys are doing good. But There is only one field withen a 2 or 3 hours drive that i know of. That one field is CHF but is not as known as memphis park.(CHF is 150 for a year membership,everything is free and you can BYOP).

Ive supported memphis when everyone went to CHF and always have untill now. THere was around 20 people there sunday..could have been a fun day.

If anyone remebers John being manager i think everyone will argee he was better. He cared about the park. 40 dollers a case for better paint was what we paid. He hosted MPLs, made hotdogs for us,even made practices for all the teams.

The new managment hosted maybe 3 MPLs but with a small turnout.
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Old 09-25-2007, 05:18 AM #21
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WOW! I will never visit your field although I considered it at one point. I have a friend that goes there for your so called big games and he brought back some of the bouncyest evil I have ever seen in my life. It bounced on concreat when thrown at it and wouldnt fly strait to save your life. He said he paied $90 for it too!
Yall completly just acted like ***** to your comesters. So you make more money off noobs, then dont even have speedball if you dont want them to come to your field. Most fields around here dont make any money off rec players. I play at Hermitage, MTP, or mostly Insane paintball. I never have once had to air a bunker up, I have never had to pay more than $60 for paint, and I have never had to pay for all day air. I have also never played a game without a ref and I can promise you I have never paied the prices you listed it costing to play. Do you really think you are giving people a good deal? You must really not have any competition at all to be so stupid. Have any of you actually been to a different paintball field? Ill tell you what, If I were any of the guys that you talked **** to that had legitimate complaints about your field I would kick your ***/burn down your field/**** your mother/run over your dog/frame you for murder/ect....
You really showed your *** in this thread. I hope your field goes out of business. I was wanting to open a field, The memphis area is looking nice! I could steal all your business easially but I have no money to get started. I hope someone comes along and does so however.
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