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Old 09-17-2007, 09:27 PM #1
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Seeing as this is "the" pump section...

Who else is totally against the split?

I mean look, it's been a few days and 4 of the 14 threads are stickies...

That's 2/7 of the threads.



But hey, at least there's no "Support threads"
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Old 09-17-2007, 10:08 PM #2
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I'm totally with you,

how long before this thread gets deleted?
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Old 09-17-2007, 10:55 PM #3
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They should combine pump marker with pump talk and have it together
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Old 09-17-2007, 11:14 PM #4
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Quote:
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They should combine pump marker with pump talk and have it together
Sounds a lot like it was before they swapped, eh?

I think I made my feelings on the split pretty clear in the other post. Completely pointless and unneeded in my opinion, and it's certainly done what I said would happen; it split up the discussion to the point where each forum is only getting a fraction of the traffic/posts it originally did.
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Old 09-18-2007, 07:33 AM #5
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I'm probably biased here, but I'll toss in a bit of "food for thought".

The Pump Marker section was located in the Markers area. Great, no problem, fine for discussing settings, parts, and problems with various pump markers. However, pump play and pump PLAYERS are different than your average player. When we hit a walk-on field with our pumps, we're not "just another player". We have tactics, problems, solutions, and methods that differ greatly from others. Discussing that in the Markers area of PBN was more or less a lot of OT discussion. Marker forums are for marker discussions. The Ariakon forum doesn't have discussions on scenario play... there's a forum for that style of play so it doesn't have to clutter the Marker section.

I can understand and appreciate that change is sometimes hard to grasp. The pump community tends to resist change more than some. If that weren't true, none of us would still tote our pumps to the field, right? Give it a chance, use it as it's intended to be used. The change here might not set the world on fire, but it's meant to be for the greater good.
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Old 09-18-2007, 08:29 AM #6
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It's take some time to get used to but I think it'll work out.

It's great in that now people will be able to post PUMP Related events here instead of the regionals section. I don't typically go there and I'd hate to miss a cool pump outing (say a tournament on the East or West coast) just because I don't look in their regions enough.

People should make the effort to adjust instead of immediately resisting.
besides... sometimes, I don't want to see another thread on "OMG...what's better phantom or sniper!?!?!"
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Old 09-18-2007, 09:45 AM #7
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The pump community tends to resist change more than some. If that weren't true, none of us would still tote our pumps to the field, right?
Not necessarily... I mean if you grew up playing semi you have to CHANGE to play pump and you have to be willing to CHANGE your style of play to be good at pump



But in all seriousness, I'm tired of the whole "If other forums can't do it you can't" argument.


True, Ariakon can't talk about scenerio play in their forum. But they are also not the only one's that play scenerio... every marker does.

But pumps are the only ones that play speedball with a pump. Pumps are the only one that play recball with a pump.

Saying that allowing pumps to do it effectively limits 1 marker discussion to let them talk about what they want, but in reality, pumps encompasses EVERY pump, while every other marker forum limits it to just their marker.



BTW Beux, why wasn't Pumpenstein at OSC? I'm trying ot get them to come down to Texas and I need your guys' help.
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Old 09-18-2007, 10:37 AM #8
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Quote:
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Saying that allowing pumps to do it effectively limits 1 marker discussion to let them talk about what they want, but in reality, pumps encompasses EVERY pump, while every other marker forum limits it to just their marker.
Valid point.

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BTW Beux, why wasn't Pumpenstein at OSC? I'm trying ot get them to come down to Texas and I need your guys' help.
I'm not a big fan of the limited paint format. Seems like a forced limitation to me. I've been playing for 19 years and there is nothing "old school" about being limited to ~40 rounds a game. That's a large expense to go to an event when you don't like the format. If it wasn't limited paint, we'd be regulars there. Just my opinion though.
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Old 09-18-2007, 12:31 PM #9
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But hey, at least there's no "Support threads"
Viva la CN Support! Its still running smoothly in the west forum, but we will probably bring it back where it belongs when it gets shut by SYSTEM. I think that will liven this place up a bit. Hell, the pump forums were dead for about 3 weeks following the removal of our support thread. It makes sense though, we do have a 25+ player roster, many of whom would not visit PbN if it wasnt to get the scoop on the latest CN happenings.
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Old 09-18-2007, 12:40 PM #10
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Might want to check the top sticky about team threads.
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Old 09-18-2007, 12:51 PM #11
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That's the thing... if they are on your roster then there are other ways to "know the happenings" like every other normal team... phone, drive, email, IM, etc etc.
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Old 09-18-2007, 03:37 PM #12
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Quote:
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That's the thing... if they are on your roster then there are other ways to "know the happenings" like every other normal team... phone, drive, email, IM, etc etc.
Yeah, but when they would come to check the thread, they would drop their 2 cents on all the other threads on the first page. Its all about traffic when it comes to websites and money.
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Old 09-18-2007, 03:42 PM #13
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I'm not a big fan of the limited paint format. Seems like a forced limitation to me. I've been playing for 19 years and there is nothing "old school" about being limited to ~40 rounds a game. That's a large expense to go to an event when you don't like the format. If it wasn't limited paint, we'd be regulars there. Just my opinion though.
see now, this is the exact kinda discussion we should be having here.

i mean i totally dissagree with this, i think all forms of paintball should have a paint limit. maybe not a harsh as farmlands ten paintball tournaments (seriously, out of this world fun) or even OSCs 40 ball limit. but there should be a cap as to how much, volume of fire you are allowed per game. keeps the competion skill based, and keeps the game moving.
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Old 09-18-2007, 03:57 PM #14
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And Deagle, why can't they communicate like normal humans and STILL contribute to the forum?

You're acting like they are exclusive to one another.


40 balls for the 3 man and 60 for the 5 man wasn't that bad... then again I was playing with a P68 so I rarely ever used more then 10 a game even in the games we won...
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Old 09-18-2007, 03:58 PM #15
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I'm not a big fan of the limited paint format. Seems like a forced limitation to me. I've been playing for 19 years and there is nothing "old school" about being limited to ~40 rounds a game. That's a large expense to go to an event when you don't like the format. If it wasn't limited paint, we'd be regulars there. Just my opinion though.
We know. We saw the videos. Non stop at, hosing paint.
I agree with cockerpump about limited paint. It makes it more skill based.
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Old 09-18-2007, 04:18 PM #16
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it like this, in racing, they effectively cap horsepower by making you run a restricter plate with a certain sized hole in it. this means that you can strap all manners of turbos, blowers, ducting, anything you possibly can to use that air more effectively, but you only get that amount of air, and thus can only free so much energy from your fuel. so that means you can only get a certain amount of horsepower. this prevents the arms race that just turns a sport into how much money you can sink into your car. it keeps the race based on pit skill, driver skill, car design skills .... not on how big an engine you can get to run.

the same idea applies to paintball i believe. that arms race has been such a part of paintball its hard to sperate the technology from the sprot anymore. now, pump has tired to do that, but the inevitable arms race is still there. firepower still wins games, and so you see when poeple want to win, they pull out all the stops - go with the highest tech thing they can. so while that ramping and vitue boards for the semi guys, thats direct feeds, revvys and AT for pumpers. but the point of capping paint makes all those factors uniportant. if each player only got ten paintballs per game, him having a timmy means nothing. its a way to cap techonogy without having to make 10000 rules about every single new thing that comes out.

so if you ask me, i dont think it should matter so much the gun the other guy has as the paint, provided the paint is limited. i mean, it would be a blast to watch NPPL 7 man if each player on got a hopper and two pods. you might even see a team or two going out there with automags and cockers becuase with a paint cap like that, the actual gun your shooting is far less important.

i want to be judged on my skill. when i go to the feild, i judge other players based on there skill, and i hope they do the same to me. and theres alot of way in this game to cover up for a lack of skill, and one of the biggest is just to shoot more paint. its not the end all to skill, and im not saying shooting alot shows you don;t have skill, thats not my point. but my point is, its much easier to see who is the better player when you know each player started off with the exact same potential to win technologically.
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Old 09-18-2007, 04:22 PM #17
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Originally Posted by Pump Scout View Post
I'm probably biased here, but I'll toss in a bit of "food for thought".

The Pump Marker section was located in the Markers area. Great, no problem, fine for discussing settings, parts, and problems with various pump markers. However, pump play and pump PLAYERS are different than your average player. When we hit a walk-on field with our pumps, we're not "just another player". We have tactics, problems, solutions, and methods that differ greatly from others. Discussing that in the Markers area of PBN was more or less a lot of OT discussion. Marker forums are for marker discussions. The Ariakon forum doesn't have discussions on scenario play... there's a forum for that style of play so it doesn't have to clutter the Marker section.

I can understand and appreciate that change is sometimes hard to grasp. The pump community tends to resist change more than some. If that weren't true, none of us would still tote our pumps to the field, right? Give it a chance, use it as it's intended to be used. The change here might not set the world on fire, but it's meant to be for the greater good.
I don't think anyone has yet argued that it must stay in it's former location so much as that it should remain as one forum. There's a problem with it being in the Markers section, sure, I get that, but you don't need to make a new forum to deal with that. Simply move and rename the old one and it can continue as it was unhampered by the "problem" of being in the wrong section. Splitting it hasn't appeared to do anything but strain the topics and posts.
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Old 09-18-2007, 05:04 PM #18
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We know. We saw the videos. Non stop at, hosing paint.
I agree with cockerpump about limited paint. It makes it more skill based.
Boy am I getting tired of that. Where you at the NSA Nationals last year to watch us play? Are you aware that we (Pumpenstein) as a whole, shoot less than a sportshot's worth of paint a game?

You watch one HIGHLIGHT reel and you think you know us. Dude, you're seriously misinformed.
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Old 09-18-2007, 05:26 PM #19
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I don't see a problem with the split. It just seems like there's less going on here because it's not full of people asking the same damn gun questions over and over again or showing off thier completely stock gun just because it's new. There's not any less talk about pump play then the last section. It'll also take a few weeks for everybody to find out about the new section.

Beaux, if you guys use so little paint, then why do you care about limited paint? Why do people say they don't use something, but can't handle having it taken away?

I think paint limits are an awesome idea. I understand shooting lanes and giving people cover, but it got kinda boring once people decided to use those tatics the entire game, instead of just when a team mate needed it. Everybody is to worried about winning, and you can see it in pump now. The new generation of pump players want the fastest shooting pump gun they can find and shoot almost as much as paint as in semi, which kind of defeats the whole purpose of a pump, which is limited firepower.
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Old 09-18-2007, 05:29 PM #20
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Too this discussion here:
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...5#post40035795
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Old 09-18-2007, 10:54 PM #21
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Quote:
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And Deagle, why can't they communicate like normal humans and STILL contribute to the forum?

You're acting like they are exclusive to one another.


40 balls for the 3 man and 60 for the 5 man wasn't that bad... then again I was playing with a P68 so I rarely ever used more then 10 a game even in the games we won...
Many of them just dont go on PbN unless they have to. Its not about being exclusive to one another, its just that most of our team members are older, with jobs, g/f's and wives, families and the like. Surfing PbN isnt exactly a priority, but if we make announcements within a thread on PbN, they are kinda forced to come on here. Again, it boils down to traffic. You cant get peoples attention if they dont come around.
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