Kickass skinny matrix idea - Page 2 - PbNation
Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

 
Archived Thread - Cannot Edit  
Old 08-13-2007, 10:08 PM #22
shockrshootr23 (Banned)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: gurnee, illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by 239baller View Post
i ment how will the orings be keped in place.... (ill check the updated pic)
theyre kept in place with o-ring grooves.
shockrshootr23 is offline  
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 08-13-2007, 10:28 PM #23
shockrshootr23 (Banned)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: gurnee, illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIdeaGuy View Post
It has to fight against the continuous flow from the HP port.
Again, Pressure is not equal to volume.
Think of it this way, if you had 100psi in a 10 CI cylinder with a .25 inch outlet would it have the same force as a 100 CI cylinder with 10PSI? Absolutely not, thus volume and pressure are two completely separate equations it a design. You need a certain amount of volume to sustain flow while the pressure is the force to accelerate a ball properly.

I am not trying to dog on your idea, I think its really cool and simple and I like that. What I am trying to do is help you finesse it so it works exceptionally well instead of just being functional.

I believe you said:
"So, once again, I'm only asking for advice if anyone see's any errors in the drawing."
Even if you hollow out the back part (I am assuming your just using a stock TechT bolt) You still have the same amount of forward force and that would make me nervous. The reason as I tried to explain (poorly I might add ) that the face of the hollowed out section is still exposed to the high pressure side.
Think about it, 16grams (I think?) getting hit with 50 lbs of forward force is scary and probably one of the reasons DYE never made a design like that.

Not to mention I think it will be allot more efficient if you cap that HP port...
i get what your saying, but i highly dought that it's that much of a concern considering a bolt like that is made and out on the shelves, and nothing has gone wrong with it(i assume). also, i understand that the pressure is not equal to volume. I think i misread one of your posts on that. But, since the dump chamber is a pretty low pressure(compared to something like a pm5), it's really not that hard to push the bolt to the back position, ecspecially after the dump chamber is emptied after a shot(yes, i understand that the dump chamber refills very quickly). Also, the efficiency isn't really a problem since the dwell is so low. I COULD find a way to seal the hp input, but i don't really think it's all that necessary.
shockrshootr23 is offline  
Old 08-13-2007, 10:37 PM #24
TheIdeaGuy
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
I think you will find that a pod or two is worth the trouble.
TheIdeaGuy is offline  
Old 08-13-2007, 10:44 PM #25
paintballa8224
Engineer in the Making
 
paintballa8224's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Clarkson University
Being a blow forward and all, you're kinda turning your Matrix into an E-Mag/Freestyle(sorry for the oversimplification of it).

There's an animation of a freestyle here if that might help you out at all. Although, it seems like you've already got that part figured out. If I were you I'd pick up a 2k3 or earlier BKO asa/lpr and rig that up. You'd have to block the air hole taht exists and redrill another. To get the air from the reg/asa to the rear of the marker mayeb use macroline and a few fittings? That idea may interfere with your ability to use an ultralite frame.

I can't tell from the pic how you plan to bring HP air from the reg to the rear of the marker if you're chopping the bottom off. I am not familiar with Matrices so there's probably something already thought up.
paintballa8224 is offline  
Old 08-13-2007, 10:49 PM #26
239baller
robinhood was a thief
 
239baller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: clearwater, florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by shockrshootr23 View Post
theyre kept in place with o-ring grooves.
duh, but where are they? and where is the bolt guied being heald from
__________________
"Originally posted by Jebus Christ: Well it's official, I'm going to hell......"

"Originally posted by Nerobellum: it sounded like an angry chainsaw covered in rust and syphilis. "
239baller is offline  
Old 08-13-2007, 10:53 PM #27
shockrshootr23 (Banned)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: gurnee, illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by 239baller View Post
duh, but where are they? and where is the bolt guied being heald from
umm.. the o-rings are all the red dots. the bolt guide here is the top hat, and the top hat is connected to the back cap, which is screwed into the gun.
shockrshootr23 is offline  
Old 08-13-2007, 11:04 PM #28
shockrshootr23 (Banned)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: gurnee, illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIdeaGuy View Post
I think you will find that a pod or two is worth the trouble.
well if efficiency ends up being a problem i'll fix it by modding the bolt and adding a stem to it.
shockrshootr23 is offline  
Old 08-13-2007, 11:07 PM #29
239baller
robinhood was a thief
 
239baller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: clearwater, florida
ohh, allright now i got it... i guess i was sorta blind for a few min lol
__________________
"Originally posted by Jebus Christ: Well it's official, I'm going to hell......"

"Originally posted by Nerobellum: it sounded like an angry chainsaw covered in rust and syphilis. "
239baller is offline  
Old 08-13-2007, 11:09 PM #30
shockrshootr23 (Banned)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: gurnee, illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by 239baller View Post
ohh, allright now i got it... i guess i was sorta blind for a few min lol
lol np
shockrshootr23 is offline  
Old 08-13-2007, 11:40 PM #31
paintballer50505
DONT TAKE THIS AVATAR
 
paintballer50505's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: new jersey
 has been a member for 10 years
i think the stem is necessary because i think you would need to be running a really high lpr pressure to get the bolt back if the dump chamber is being refilled with air while the bolt is still open. might keep it forced open.
__________________
TOPGUN GSP

Sponsored By:
TopGun Paintball
KEE / empire
BigEvilOnline
FloryPB
paintballer50505 is online now  
Old 08-14-2007, 12:31 AM #32
shockrshootr23 (Banned)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: gurnee, illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by paintballer50505 View Post
i think the stem is necessary because i think you would need to be running a really high lpr pressure to get the bolt back if the dump chamber is being refilled with air while the bolt is still open. might keep it forced open.
Yes, but I don't think it is that big of a problem right now. I mean, this idea isn't from scratch, its based off of an already proven bolt system. If it requires a high lpr pressure, then i will mod it to have a stem.
shockrshootr23 is offline  
Old 08-14-2007, 01:36 AM #33
Thorpydo
dede!
 
Thorpydo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Thorpydo is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Doesn't TechT already make a bolt like this for the matrix? Minus the top had mod.
Thorpydo is offline  
Old 08-14-2007, 02:07 AM #34
TheIdeaGuy
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpydo View Post
Doesn't TechT already make a bolt like this for the matrix? Minus the top had mod.
Yea, I was saying that earlier. I don't like the TechT bolt for obvious reasons... Its like, "Look I whacked the end of the bolt off and it still works!" It may be lighter but I still don't like the fact that the high pressure side just bleeds off into atmosphere while the bolt is in its forward position. If you wanted to do something really kickass you could plug the hole in the rear cap and redirect the gas there... That might save you some inches at least.
TheIdeaGuy is offline  
Old 08-14-2007, 06:41 AM #35
shockrshootr23 (Banned)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: gurnee, illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpydo View Post
Doesn't TechT already make a bolt like this for the matrix? Minus the top had mod.
yeah. im using a techt bolt. The whole point of this is to eliminate the beer can so the gun is much skinnier and lighter. And The Idea Guy, can you explain further on the redirect the gas thing?
shockrshootr23 is offline  
Old 08-14-2007, 06:44 AM #36
shockrshootr23 (Banned)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: gurnee, illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIdeaGuy View Post
It may be lighter but I still don't like the fact that the high pressure side just bleeds off into atmosphere while the bolt is in its forward position.
I still don't get what you mean by high pressure side. are you just talking about the dump chamber? If so the stock shocker bolt system does the same thing. Nothing seals the HE input when it's forward. I don't see anything here thats at a very high pressure compared to other guns. That is, unless your talking about how much force is on the bolt.

Last edited by shockrshootr23 : 08-14-2007 at 10:11 AM.
shockrshootr23 is offline  
Old 08-14-2007, 10:45 AM #37
Thorpydo
dede!
 
Thorpydo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Diego, CA
Thorpydo is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
The whole point of this is to eliminate the beer can so the gun is much skinnier and lighter.
I see... Do you have a way to machine a new body?

Why not come up with something completely new if your going to go the distance to make a new body.
Thorpydo is offline  
Old 08-14-2007, 01:05 PM #38
shockrshootr23 (Banned)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: gurnee, illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpydo View Post
I see... Do you have a way to machine a new body?

Why not come up with something completely new if your going to go the distance to make a new body.
I wish i had the right tools to do the job. But i can look around and see who can make me a body. Also, why would i need to make something completely new when the matrix is already perfect?? IMO, it's spool valves FTW

Last edited by shockrshootr23 : 08-14-2007 at 01:10 PM.
shockrshootr23 is offline  
Old 08-14-2007, 01:58 PM #39
TheIdeaGuy
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
What I am suggesting is to build basically a new marker, using something like a PMR would probably be a good place to start, at least for the sake of explanation. Basically instead of using a rear section on the sail like in a PM7 or DM7, rerout the gas to behind the "plunger" or "tail" or whatever you want to call the little stop that plugs the high pressure inlet. Run it just like a dm7 system but using the space behind the bolt instead of making the bolt longer.
TheIdeaGuy is offline  
Old 08-14-2007, 03:29 PM #40
shockrshootr23 (Banned)
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: gurnee, illinois
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIdeaGuy View Post
What I am suggesting is to build basically a new marker, using something like a PMR would probably be a good place to start, at least for the sake of explanation. Basically instead of using a rear section on the sail like in a PM7 or DM7, rerout the gas to behind the "plunger" or "tail" or whatever you want to call the little stop that plugs the high pressure inlet. Run it just like a dm7 system but using the space behind the bolt instead of making the bolt longer.
ahh i see. I'll look into that also.
shockrshootr23 is offline  
Old 08-14-2007, 05:36 PM #41
TheIdeaGuy
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Only problem with this approach is that there is allot of space between the front and rear of the marker... Your bright, you should be able to work around it
TheIdeaGuy is offline  
Old 08-15-2007, 01:14 PM #42
shockrshootr24 (Banned)
Dirty Ginger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Illinois
ok people for some reason i got banned for feedback fraud supposedly when i didn't do anything so everyone please remember that this is my new account.
shockrshootr24 is offline  
 




Posting Rules
Forum Jump