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Old 06-26-2007, 06:53 PM #1
Adema3412
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I Got Soul

As we discover more and more about the inner-workings of the brain dualist notions of a separation between mind and body become increasingly absurd, specifically such beliefs which only ascribe a soul to humans.
The below is an interesting article, which discusses this issue.
Enjoy

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/26/sc...gg&exprod=digg
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Old 06-26-2007, 06:59 PM #2
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Old 06-26-2007, 09:18 PM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adema3412 View Post
As we discover more and more about the inner-workings of the brain dualist notions of a separation between mind and body become increasingly absurd, specifically such beliefs which only ascribe a soul to humans.
The below is an interesting article, which discusses this issue.
Enjoy

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/26/sc...gg&exprod=digg
And at least part of the reason why I hold a trichotomistic view for humans. (body, soul/intellect/emotions, spirit).
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Old 06-27-2007, 01:13 AM #4
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Care to explain this theory, because right now it appears that the man is made up of a soul and body which are the same, an intellect as part of the mind and emotions as a separate part of the mind.
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It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized
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--Murray Rothbard
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Old 06-27-2007, 03:23 AM #5
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i believe that theres something inside us that can keep us going thru a disease or mental strife... call it soul if u will but i know that theres something inside that can keep sumone alive a couple extra months when diagnosed with brain cancer or deal with the unrelenting mental agony of a loss of family member or dear friend... just my input..
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Old 06-27-2007, 03:37 AM #6
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Originally Posted by str8Ripa16 View Post
i believe that theres something inside us that can keep us going thru a disease or mental strife... call it soul if u will but i know that theres something inside that can keep sumone alive a couple extra months when diagnosed with brain cancer or deal with the unrelenting mental agony of a loss of family member or dear friend... just my input..
Yes it's called 'survival instinct'. Species that do not exhibit this trait go extinct.
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Old 06-27-2007, 04:51 AM #7
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I've also read articles and what not that are opposite of that.....

about learning about the soul.......and stuff

I shall try to find them again




you can't really get anything good out of a newspaper....especially nytimes...........

it only shows one side of the argument
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Old 06-27-2007, 06:37 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derr View Post
Yes it's called 'survival instinct'. Species that do not exhibit this trait go extinct.
QFT

All animals have the instinct to keep on keeping on through as much as possible.
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:05 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paintballcole View Post
I've also read articles and what not that are opposite of that.....

about learning about the soul.......and stuff

I shall try to find them again




you can't really get anything good out of a newspaper....especially nytimes...........

it only shows one side of the argument
This article is the scientific side of the story, so in that case yes it is one sided, but there aren't really two scientific sides to this.
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It is no crime to be ignorant of economics, which is, after all, a specialized
discipline. But it is totally irresponsible to have a loud and vociferous opinion
on economic subjects while remaining in this state of ignorance.
--Murray Rothbard
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Old 06-27-2007, 09:38 AM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adema3412 View Post
Care to explain this theory, because right now it appears that the man is made up of a soul and body which are the same, an intellect as part of the mind and emotions as a separate part of the mind.
There is Biblical evidences of a trichotomistic view, and is in fact the more popular Christian view. there are some Christians that do hold the duality/dichotomy, but I have never seen that in scripture. I have posted this, or parts of this in other threads. it gets into the trinity/tri-unity of God as well, but is pertinent to the explanation :
Quote:
Something I wrote a while ago, that addresses this:
I don’t claim to be an expert on this subject or controversy of the trichotomistic view of man, but I do agree with the early church “fathers” in that I believe that man (anthropon – Greek) is one being, existing with a spirit, soul and body. In order that I might explain this with a little detail, I find that I first must explain a bit about the trichotomistic or triunity of God. Since it is God that created us in His “image”:

I don’t like to use symbolic terminology a lot, because many people get the wrong idea, but the New King James Bible Logo, has kind of a good example of God - “The triquetra (from a Latin word meaning “three-cornered”) is an ancient symbol for the Trinity. It comprises three interwoven arcs, distinct yet equal and inseparable, symbolizing that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct yet equal Persons and indivisibly One God.”

I do have a little bit of a challenge with the word usage trinity (first used by Theophilus (A.D. 168-183), or from the Latin trinitas, first used by Tertullian (A.D. 220)), however, (even used in “Holy Trinity”. The reason is that it “leads” the reader to think in terms of three separate (and usually equal) parts, depending on context. I personally prefer to use tri-unity or triune; which, for me, has a better feel of a single God. So you will see me refer to god as the Triune Godhead.

Many like to use the egg as an example, but it, like the word usage of “Trinity” falls somewhat short of the mark (in my opinion). The shell, whites and yolk are still three separate parts of a whole.

I have two better examples (again, this is all subjective and personal opinion, I am not attempting to write a paper or book on the subject):

1. Water. Most of us understand that Water can take on three of the four states of matter; liquid, solid and gas (arguably, plasma might be considered, but not for my example sake). Simple, right? Actually even that analogy is similar to the egg in that we are still talking about three separate states of the single, and not a single.

However…Water will boil and freeze at the same point when it is placed in a near vacuum (0.6 psi). Water, of course, boils at 212o F at "normal" atmospheric pressure (14 psi). As the pressure decreases so does the boiling point. Eventually, the temperature that water boils is also the same as when it freezes. (Sometimes called the “triple point”) So what? Well what this means is that water at a given point in the right pressure and circumstances can be liquid, gas and solid all at the same time!

Okay, enough of the science lesson. Many “Christians” feel the science is inherently evil, so let’s use this second illustration.

2. My Name is Brent Hoefling. I am the son of Duane, and husband of Mary and Father to MyLisa and Jordan. Brent, the father, Brent the son, and Brent the husband. All distinct and individual aspects of my life, yet I am still only one person.

As we humans try to understand the Triune Godhead. We find it necessary to anthropomorphize God (a big word that just means we use “human terms” to describe Him, like having eyes, ears, legs etc…).

The Father serves the Son; the Son serves the Father; Father and Son defer to the Holy Spirit, who in turn, serves and defers to the Father and Son in a oneness that is eternally changing (and yet God remains immutable) and inexhaustible. The mutual love of the triune persons spills over into the creation and is seen in their generous cooperation in saving the lost.

With all that said; let me continue a bit further to that trichotomistic view of man I spoke of earlier. I realize that this view is not necessarily accepted by people that hold to the beliefs of the Latin “fathers”, but I am only presenting my view.

In one version of trichotomy God inhabits the spirit (“the inner person”), releasing it from bondage to the soul (“the outer person”) and the body (“the outermost person”) and making them subservient to the spirit instead

Are the soul and the spirit distinct, or are they the same? Generally, the Eastern church believed that man was trichotomous—consisting of three parts—body, soul, and spirit. Originally, the Greek and Alexandrian church Fathers held this view, including men like Origen and Clement of Alexandria

Trichotomy comes from Greek tricha , “three,” and temno , “to cut.” Hence, man is a three-part being, consisting of body, soul, and spirit. (similar analogy to the Triuneity of God) The soul and spirit are said to be different both in function and in substance. The body is seen as world-conscious, the soul as self-conscious, and the spirit as God-conscious.

The soul is seen as a lower power consisting of man’s imagination, memory, and understanding; the spirit is a higher power, consisting of reason, conscience, and will. The support for the trichotomous view is:
(a) Paul seems to emphasize the three-part view in desiring the sanctification of the entire person (1 Thessalonians 5:23).
(b) Hebrews 4:12 implies a distinction between soul and spirit. The terms body, soul and spirit, are used as exhaustive enumerations of the whole man in Hebrews 4:12.
(c) 1 Corinthians 2:14–3:4 suggests a threefold classification: natural (fleshly), carnal (soul-ish), and spiritual (spiritual).

The trichotomy is the most intelligible, and the one most commonly adopted beliefs, that the body is the material part of our constitution; the soul, or ψυχή , is the principle of animal life; and the mind, or πνευ̂μα , the principle of our rational and immortal life.

What happened to the physical man that God created? He was given what we would call a soul—but that word is often misunderstood. He was given the psychological part of himself; that is, that part which directs him in his approach to the physical universe.

He gets hungry; so he goes and eats. He desires entertainment, and he provides that for himself He may be a very generous individual, very amiable, very attractive, and he may have what we call charisma.

Many unsaved people are like that. They are likable folk, and I sometimes wish that all believers were as gracious as some unsaved people whom I meet. Although unsaved folk can be very attractive on the surface, they are very different underneath, of course. This is man’s psychological nature.

But God also breathed into man’s breathing places the breath of life, or the wind, the pneuma , the spirit. This is man’s human spirit, and it is above the psychological. It is that which looks to God, that which longs for God, that which wants to worship.

Man, therefore, has a tripartite nature. He is a trinity: the body or the physical side, the soul or the psychological side, and the spirit or the pneumatic side. The psychological side is what Jude calls “sensual”.

The threefold division of human nature into soma (“body”), psuche (“soul”), pneuma (“spirit”) had been accepted by many when Apollinaris, bishop of Laodicea (died 382), attempted to explain the mystery of Christ’s person by teaching that the Logos (or second person of the Trinity) had taken the place of the rational soul in Christ, so that the person of Christ on earth consisted of the Divine Logos , a human body, and a soul ( psuche ) as the link between the two.

Beware of dividing man up into body, soul and spirit, though. Man is body, soul and spirit - yes. Soul is the expression of man’s personal spirit in his body. Spirit means I, myself, the incalculable being that is ‘me,’ the essence that expresses itself in the soul.

The immortal part of a man is not his soul, but his spirit. Man’s spirit is as indestructible as God; the expression of his spirit in the soul depends on the body. In the Bible the soul is always referred to in connection with the body. The soul is the holder of the body and spirit together, and when the body disappears, the soul disappears, but the essential personality of the man remains.
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"I believe, in order to understand" or "I understand in order to believe": Augustine/Anselm (paraphrase)
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Old 06-27-2007, 12:44 PM #11
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But Rambo, the article is tagged as a "science" therefore it is "true". You followers of science seem to be the most dogmatic people ever, regardless if it's Christian, Jewish, or whatever, anything metaphysical is deemed nonsense.

I'm still trying to figure out who has a more "open mind". Those who believe that physical is all there is, or people who think that the door isn't closed on the physical realm.

Those who rule out metaphysics within science are already doomed to view proofs through the eyes of presuppositions. Again, everyone's following something. Everyone has faith.
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