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Old 07-06-2004, 11:58 PM #1
wildcat04
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Good Trading Tips.....

PbNation is in no way accountable for any problems you may have using the Buy/Sell/Trade sections of this site. If you are having problems please visit the Theft Report forum for help.


3rd Party Deals: The safest way to trade online.
The absolute 100% way not to get scammed is to use a PbNation Moderator as a 3rd party. There is a small cost associated with using a 3rd party, but it guarantees you will not be scammed and a Moderator can help mediate a resolution if there is a problem.

Avoid known scammers.
Make sure the person you are dealing with is not on the Traders To Avoid list. If they are on the list you should avoid dealing with them and contact a Moderator.


Essential Buy/Sell/Trade Tips:
  • Buy/Sell/Trade here on PbNation at your own risk. We assume no responsibility for any part of any transaction.
  • Be polite to buyers and sellers. This includes people you have no intention of dealing with. Other potential dealers won't want to deal with you if they see you are rude to others.
  • If the deal is too good to be true, then it probably is. Use a 3rd party or find a different deal.
  • Do not rely on PMs. Save important information such as PbN PMs, instant message logs, emails, texts.
  • Buyers: Ask questions. Make sure everything you want is included in the sale.
  • Sellers: Be incredibly clear about the condition of items and exactly what is included. Don't leave off damage or wear to try to sell an item faster or for more money. It will cause problems in the long run.
  • Ask for detailed pictures. Feel free to ask the seller to take a picture of the item with their name, your name and today's date on a piece of paper with the item.
  • Make sure sellers have their items listed in a thread. Deals strictly through PMs aren't eligible for feedback.
  • Always exchange personal contact information such as full name, home address, email address, and phone number. Call the person and speak with them on the phone.
  • When dealing with someone under the age of 18 you should always talk to their parents on the phone.
  • Never send money or product before a complete deal is agreed to by both sides and full contact information is exchanged and verified.
  • If the other party is unwilling to share complete contact information, don't deal with them.
  • Make sure both sides agree on when and how money or items should ship and then update the other party if things change.
  • If your item has a serial number, write it down. Take pictures of it. Also make note of every distinguishing mark it has.
  • Use a credit card whenever possible: If you use a credit card, you can file a dispute with the credit card company if you do not receive the item you purchased or if what you receive is not what you ordered.
  • Do NOT send cash, EVER. Often it will never reach its destination and there is no way to recover the funds or even prove money was sent.
  • After the deal is finalized, post it right in the thread. Quote the first post so it can't be edited. Be very clear about everything that is included.
  • The person with the least amount of feedback generally ships first. Check feedback thoroughly to make sure it is legitimate. If you don't want to ship first, simply don't. Use a 3rd party or find a different deal.
  • When shipping, always use Delivery Confirmation from USPS or tracking from UPS, FedEx, or DHL.
  • Always insure high value items for the cost of replacement. Take the extra expense of insurance into account when selling your item. Insurance protects you if the item is damaged or lost while being shipped.
  • Keep all tracking slips, shipping receipts, payment receipts, money order receipts etc. These items will help you resolve potential problems and are needed for insurance claims with shipping companies.
  • Do not leave feedback until you have everything you were promised in hand.
Remember, user rules posted in their thread don't mean anything and aren't enforceable. The only rules that matter can be found here: PbNation B/S/T Rules. It is good etiquette to read over another user's rules before posting in their thread because you might choose not to deal with them if they have too many made up rules or rules you do not like. You are not under any obligation to follow any of these user made up rules.
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Old 07-07-2004, 01:35 PM #2
wildcat04
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Here are some simple steps you should take when trading on Pbnation.

Please be very cautious dealing with anyone on the site. If they have lots of positive feedback spread out over a long time, that should ease some of your fears. If they are an Annual Supporting Member (ASM) then that should also make you feel a little better about the deal. However, if you are nervous in any way about a deal, the other party is trying to rush you or it sounds too good to be true, just don't do it. It is probably not worth being scammed.

We recommend you use one of our mods as an independent third party. They can make sure neither side gets scammed.

If you are not going to go through a mod, we recommend both parties use B/S/T Trust. For only $1.35 you can have the peace of mind that the first and last name, address, and email address of the other party have all been recorded through paypal. You'll also be able to see if the other person is verified and if their address is confirmed. If they are not willing to spend $1.35 to make sure the trade goes well, why would you want to deal with them?

If the person you are dealing with does not answer all of your questions in a reasonable amount of time and in a polite manner, move on and don’t deal with them. If they are treating you poorly now, imagine what it will be like to deal with them if something goes wrong.

Buying stolen merchandise is a crime. At the very minimum you will have to forfeit what you purchased and the chance of receiving a refund is slim. If the person selling is acting shady, do not deal with them. You can lose out. Selling stolen merchandise is a much more serious crime (even if you did not steal the item).

The first rule for B/S/T is:
Quote:
1• Buy/Sell/Trade here on PbNation at your own risk. We assume no responsibility for any part of any transaction. Never send money or product before a deal is agreed to by both sides and full contact information is exchanged and verified. Do not rely on PM's. If the other party is unwilling to share contact information, then don't deal with them.
That rule is there to protect you. Ignore it at your own risk.

Always get the other person's full name, address and at least one confirmed, working phone number before agreeing to send anything. Also record all the screen names you've talked to them on (examples - PBN, PBF, AOL, MSN, ICQ, ec.).

After you get Name, Address and Phone #, use B/S/T Trust to verify they are who they say they are.

If the person is under the age of 18, talk to their parents and make sure they understand what is going on and what is expected out of their child. Get a cell phone number, work number or email address where you can reach them outside of the home and make sure you can get through to them.

When possible, get a driver’s license number and a picture of their license. This is an invaluable tool if the police have to get involved. It also helps you verify they are over 18.

Pay for tracking, insurance and signature confirmation when you ship. Make sure the insurance would be enough to replace the item being sent if it is damaged or lost. Never, ever ship something without at least delivery confirmation. You run the risk of them claiming they never got it.

Pack everything securely to prevent damage, and make sure you tape the openings to prevent tampering.

If someone has what you think is questionable feedback, check out a few random people on the list and see if they have low post counts, very few feedback or a recent join date to when the feedback was left. These are all warning signs that the feedback may not be legitimate.

Check other forums and even google to see if the person is a known scammer.

Whenever possible, pay with PayPal, money order, or check. This will allow you to see who cashed the money.

Just because you have received a payment through paypal doesn’t mean they can’t claim the funds back. Make sure to save proof you sent the package and they signed for it for at least three months.

Since a user is capable of editing the thread after they have sold the item, quote the original for sale post with the item you are buying and rehosting the images so that even if they change the initial post, you always have a copy in their thread of what was for sale. This helps settle any argument later about what was and was not part of the deal.

Use the serial number to verify with the manufacturer that any marker you want to buy is not stolen. If it is stolen, turn over the seller’s information to the manufacturer and report the post immediately to PbNation.

If you have little or no feedback and are selling or trading a gun, don't expect people to send payment or merchandise first or even at the same time. If you feel like you can't trust someone, then don’t. If you feel the deal is too good to pass up, ask a mod or admin about 3rd party services. It's worth the extra money to make sure you don't get scammed.

Only trust feedback from the actual seller in their for sale thread. Verify the name is exactly the same and feel free to PM the user from their feedback thread to make sure it is the same person you are dealing with if using the old style feedback.

Do not accept funds over what is owed, especially if they want you to send the extra money with the equipment they are buying. This is a classic scam where the initial funds will prove to be fraudulent and you will owe for the full amount.

Photoshop is a wonderful tool, and often a devious one. Ask for specific pictures. This may seem obvious, but many times people see one pic and that is enough for them. Not only does this help prevent someone from taking the picture from another source, but it also helps to make sure everything is in a condition described.

Don't rush into things. Many times scammers will want you to rush into a deal or ship next-day air. Take time to get all their info and finalize a deal you are both happy with.

If your gun has a serial number, write it down. Take pictures of it. Also make note of every distinguishing mark you gun has. This only aids in the return of you gun if it is stolen.

Keep all your contact logs with the person. PbN PMs, AIM logs, and emails will help with any deals being disputed. Be careful though, as they can easily be faked.

Do not send cash. Ever. Most of the time, it will never make it to it's destination if you send cash in an envelope and then it is gone for good.

If you've been scammed and have proof, feel free to post it here in the Theft Report Forum but more importantly, contact the Police and try to get your gear back.

Check the stickies in the Theft Report Forum. There is good advice there.

Ok guys... In lue of all the recent scamming, including me myself almost being scammed I've decided that writing this may help some people not get scammed....


Here are some simple steps you can take to help you out while trading....

1) Always get Name (first and last), Address (house number, street, city, zip code), atleast 1 working phone number(always get the phone number first and call it before sending anything) All screen names you've talked to them on(PBN, PBF, AOL, MSN, ICQ, ec.)

2) If the person is under the age of 18 TALK TO THEIR PARENTS and make sure they understand what is going on... This will save your *** so they can't come back and say they didn't know what was going on... If dealing with parents get a cell phone number or number from them where you can reach them outside of the home...

3) After you get Name, Address and Phone #, use a source like 411.com to do address lookups to verify that they indeed live there...

4) If you are trading for merchandise over borders like from US to Canada or vis versa make sure you INSURE THE PACKAGE FOR WHAT IT WOULD COST TO BUY EVERYTHING NEW.... Now I know this may increase the customs fees alittle but if anything were to go wrong nobody would be screwed....

5) If you have no feedback and are selling a gun don't expect people to send first or at the same time.... If you feel like you can't trust someone ask a mod or admin about 3rd party services... It's worth the extra $20 so make sure you don't get scammed...

6) If someone has what you think is sketchy feedback, check with a few random people on the list..... You could also ask a Admin to do an IP check to make sure there are different people...

7)Always do checks with as many forums as you can..... Just do some simple searches in bad feedback or theft forums to make sure this person is trying to scam your ***....

8) When shipping something you value, I would suggest fully insuring it... Also request a sig. confirmation(this way they can't deny they received it)

9) If you've been scammed, don't hesitate to let the rest of the nation know....

10) Whenever possible, Pay with PayPal, MO, or Check.... This will insure you that you can see who cashed the money....

11) Also guys.. Get there license number.. This will save your *** in no matter what happens.. If they take your gun (Steal/Fraud). Police will locate them. (thanks Pballa14)

12) IF you're shipping to Canada from the states... Make sure you have your money or goods first or that you use a third party... By law in canada, if a person recieves goods with out paying for them first they're considered a gift and the canadian police can do nothing even if you have a 100 foot stack of evidence..



Well after all that I hope this helps someone from being scammed.... Good luck and happy trading....

CodyT

PS: If someone tells you that they will send you a $2000 MO and you're to keep the agreed amount and then use Western Union to send rest to them and there Shipping agent will pick up the package..... IT'S A SCAM!!!! This is called the Nigerian Scam.... The MO is fake and won't show until 3-7 days later.... Which leaves you screwed because you would have to pay back the bank....
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Old 04-13-2007, 04:55 PM #3
Burninator
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Here are some simple steps you should follow while buying, selling and trading:

If the person you are dealing with does not answer all of your questions in a reasonable amount of time and in a polite manner, move on and don’t deal with them. If they are treating you poorly now, imagine what it will be like to deal with them if something goes wrong.

Buying stolen merchandise is a crime. At the very minimum you will have to forfeit what you purchased and the chance of receiving a refund is slim. If the person selling is acting shady, do not deal with them. You can lose out. Selling stolen merchandise is a much more serious crime (even if you did not steal the item).

Always write down the full name (first and last), address (house number, street, city, zip code), phone number (verify the number is valid) and all screen names you've talked to them on (PBN, AIM, MSN, ICQ, etc.) as soon as you’ve agreed to a deal. If they don’t want to share this info, don’t deal with them.

After you get Name, Address and Phone #, use a source like http://411.com to do an address lookup to verify that they do indeed live there.

When possible, get a driver’s license number and a picture of their license. This is an invaluable tool if the police have to get involved. It also helps you verify they are over 18.

If the person is under the age of 18, talk to their parents and make sure they understand what is going on. When dealing with kids under 18, make sure you get a phone number where you can reach the parents direct.

If you are trading for merchandise, especially if it is out of the country, make sure you insure the package for what it would cost to buy everything again. This may increase the fees a little, but if anything goes wrong in shipping, you’re protected.

Since a user is capable of editing the thread after they have sold the item, we suggest quoting the original for sale post with the item you are buying and rehosting the images so that even if they change the initial post, you always have a copy in their thread of what was for sale. This helps settle any argument later about what was and was not part of the deal.

Use the serial number to verify with the manufacturer that any marker you want to buy is not stolen. If it is stolen, turn over the seller’s information to the manufacturer and notify PbNation by emailing cs@pbnation.com

If you have little or no feedback and are selling or trading a gun, don't expect people to send payment or merchandise first or even at the same time. If you feel like you can't trust someone, then don’t. If you feel the deal is too good to pass up, ask a mod or admin about 3rd party services. It's worth the extra $20 so make sure you don't get scammed.

Only trust feedback from the actual seller in their for sale thread. Verify the name is exactly the same and feel free to PM the user from their feedback thread to make sure it is the same person you are dealing with.

If someone has what you think is sketchy feedback, check with a few random people on the list. You could also ask an Admin to do an IP check to make sure there are different people by asking in the Talk to Mods/Admins forum.

Always check with as many forums as you can to verify the seller and item being sold are legitimate. Just do some simple searches in bad feedback or theft forums to make sure this person has not been accused of scamming other users and the item being sold is not stolen.

When shipping something you value, fully insure it. Also request a signature upon delivery.

Do not accept funds over what is owed, especially if they want you to send the extra money with the equipment they are buying. This is a classic scam where the initial funds will prove to be fraudulent and you will owe for the full amount.

Just because you have received a payment through paypal doesn’t mean they can’t claim the funds back. Make sure to save proof you sent the package and they signed for it for at least three months.

Always pay with PayPal, Money Order, or Check. This will ensure you that you can see who cashed the money. Never send cash through the mail.

If you've been scammed and have proof, feel free to post it here in the Theft Report but more importantly, contact the Police and try to get your gear back.

Last edited by Burninator : 06-09-2007 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 06-11-2007, 10:23 PM #4
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Photoshop is a wonderful tool, and often a devious one. Here's some prevention info for avoiding getting scammed, i'd pay close attention to these.

•• Prevention Tips:

• First off, be smart. Most of the time, if the deal seems to awesome for you, it just may be. Common sense prevails.

• When trading, deal with someone over the age of 18 and get their phone number. If they are under 18, talk to their parents and make sure it is ok with them and they know he is trading his equipment.

• Don't rush into things. Alot of times scammers will want you to rush into a deal or ship next-day air. Take time to get all their info and finalize a deal you are both happy with.

• Ask for lots of pics. This may seem obvious, but many times people see one pic and that is enough for them. Not only does this help prevent someone from taking the picture from another source, but it also helps to make sure everything is in a condition described.

• The person with the least amount of feedback should ship first. Check feedback and make sure it's legit. If all their feedback comes from people with one post and they all registered the same month, it's probably fake. Also, having friends leave them feedback is fraud also. If they are all from the same town, it could possibly be fake.

• If your gun has a serial number, write it down. Take pictures of it. Also make note of every distinguishing mark you gun has. This only aids in the return of you gun if it is stolen.

• When at a field, make sure you keep an eye on your stuff. It's way too easy for someone to grab and run. I've worked as security in retail, and it only takes a fraction of a second for someone to shove something in a coat.

• When shipping, always use Delivery Confirmation from USPS or Tracking from UPS, FedEx, or DHL. Pack everything nicely to prevent damage, and make sure you tape the openings to prevent tampering.

• Third Party Trades! Your best bet in the prevention of scamming. Contact your local friendly moderator here on PbNation. Try to avoid people doing third party trades through their local store. They may be legit, but it's best to be safe.

• Keep all your contact logs with the person. PbN PMs, AIM logs, and emails will help with any deals being disputed. Be careful though, as they can easily be faked.

• Do NOT send cash. EVER. Most of the time, it will never make it to it's destination if you send cash in an envelope. And to my knowledge, it's illegal.
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