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Old 04-25-2007, 09:25 AM #1
legbaa
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
NME empty shots

Hi.
Bought used system x nme and observed one problem.
When i shoot slowly all is ok. When i start shooting faster - sometimes happens that i shoot without a ball. The marker shoots but no ball comming out of the barrel.

The eye is on in mode 1.
Loader: Vlocity.


Thanks for any info and suggestions. I am new in NME so all seems difficult to me.
sorry for my poor english.
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Old 04-25-2007, 11:56 AM #2
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Make sure you're not turning your eyes off.
Check your detents.
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Old 04-25-2007, 02:48 PM #3
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It's neither of those things, what's actually happening is that your gun is halfcycling. Basically the bolt is only getting halfway back when you try to shoot again. Since the bolt is still in the way of the eyes, then gun is reading it as a ball and is firing again, even though the bolt hasn't moved far back enough for a ball to drop in.

It could be caused by bad drop off, or it could be that your LPR isn't high enough. What pressure are you putting into your LPR??? How new is the gun??? Try lubing the reg, or if you have another, nicer reg, then try to put that on and see what happens. Your LPR should be reading at about 60-80, depending on how new the gun is.
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Old 04-25-2007, 05:26 PM #4
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or it could be your ram cap?
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Old 04-25-2007, 08:22 PM #5
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the ram cap souds pretty good aswell. for eye mode 2, raise your BIP delay and check your detents. unless your dwell or LPR are really low, it's pretty hard to get an EP poppet valve to half cycle or "short stroke". that's only a major issue with cockers.

back out your bolt using the screw in the back of your ram cap aswell.
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Old 04-25-2007, 09:36 PM #6
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Actually it's not very hard. If you turn down the LPR and shoot faster than the gun is cycling, then you'll shoot again before the bolt resets. SEAL, man, no faith. I know my ****, son, don't worry about it.

I had this problem when I first got my first NME. It was used and the stock reg was in bad shape, the gun was getting really bad shootdown, which caused it to cycle slower and I'm able to outshoot it.

How in the hell could it be the ram cap??? Even if the adjuster is too far forward, that would just mean that a ball wouldn't drop and the eyes just wouldn't read it. He said he can shoot fine if he goes slow. That totally knocks out the ram cap because if there was a problem in the adjuster, it would occur no matter how fast he shoots.
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Old 04-25-2007, 10:34 PM #7
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when i first got my gun a while ago, i used to have the bolt too far forward and i'd have the same problem. sometimes the bolt is too far forward that it only allows some paint through and some larger, more deformed ones not to (i sometimes use crappy paint). that in conjunction with the stock bolt raping my detents and eye mode 2 with a low BIP turned my gun to skip shots and chop like none other.

i see where you're comming from though and it sounds good. i've just never seen an EP poppet value short stroke before, lol
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Old 04-26-2007, 12:17 AM #8
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Right, having the bolt too far forward can cause feeding problems, but that wouldn't cause the dry fire, especially if the eyes are working. If the ball can't get into the chamber, then the gun just won't fire. I did the same thing and had to pull back on the bolt every now and then. The bolt was just barely too far forward. A higher BIP helps in any case because sometimes a ball can bounce a little when it hits the bottom of the breech. If it bounces high enough it can cause a chop. Also, after you chop, make sure either your eye power is all the way up, or you clean out your breech really well. If the paint obstructs the eyes, then they'll always be broken and the gun will fire even if there isn't a ball in the chamber.

When I bought the gun, the guy had cut the front bolt o-ring where the detent slots are and glued it to the bolt. Because of that my detents pretty much never wear out. It's pretty cool.

The NME uses a really low pressure for it's LPR. Maybe that has something to do with it.
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Old 04-26-2007, 01:36 AM #9
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cool... hey, sorry for hijacking your thread. hope your gun works now.

i've heard of glueing on sections of the o-ring to the bolt but i've never seen it. we should make a thread on bolt mods and we can post pics of what we did to preserve our detents. then maybe i can post pics of my bolt that clears the detents completely
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Old 04-26-2007, 02:48 AM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brute06 View Post
It's neither of those things, what's actually happening is that your gun is halfcycling. Basically the bolt is only getting halfway back when you try to shoot again. Since the bolt is still in the way of the eyes, then gun is reading it as a ball and is firing again, even though the bolt hasn't moved far back enough for a ball to drop in.

It could be caused by bad drop off, or it could be that your LPR isn't high enough. What pressure are you putting into your LPR??? How new is the gun??? Try lubing the reg, or if you have another, nicer reg, then try to put that on and see what happens. Your LPR should be reading at about 60-80, depending on how new the gun is.
Hi. Thanks for the answer
It was definitely not the eye problem.
Maybe ball detents problem - maybe they were to forward and the ball just rolled out from the eyes - but it would result not shooting at all.

All settings were default.

The NME is from 2005. It was used by one guy before on some tournaments and trainings.

Now it is not so important because the marker came back from the service outlet and is not working at all :] .

When i turn it on. The diode is flickering fast - meaning object in breach - but there is no ball - no difference if eyemode1 or 2. Shooting is not possible. Pulling the trigger results only with changing color of the diode - no shot.

With the disabled eyes it is the same.

LPR is set up on 80. I use HP Stako tank with Centerflag preset.


Quote:
Try lubing the reg...
You mean HPR or LPR ?


The problem with empty shots is quite similar to
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...light=nme+shot



I will give it back to the service outlet and see what they say.
But i would be very thankfull for further suggestions.
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Old 04-26-2007, 11:57 AM #11
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its your bolt its falling into the breech because your ram cap is to far forawrd back the bolt out until you can just see the tip of it in the breech
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Old 04-26-2007, 01:03 PM #12
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try lubing both ur hp reg and lpr im sure in the stickies there is a diagram on how to do that
then check ur ramcap
finally check wires goin to and from solenoid and or solenoid itself if its not firing and the board is activating u could have a pinched or cut wire
or mabye just maybe u reset the board and the dwell is now 1 and thats why u cant hear it clicking
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Old 04-26-2007, 05:16 PM #13
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The dwell can't go under 6, so that's not it.

If the gun is straight up not firing, then it could be that the bolt adjuster is too far forward, which will cause the gun to be unable to feed. My argument was only for if the gun was firing and shooting dry shots and the eyes were working. Check your wires. I agree that it's probably a crimped wire. It could also be that your bolt is too far back if the balls are rolling out of the eye's path. Make sure your bolt can just barely be seen in the chamber when you look down the feedneck.

It sounds like your eye wires are crimped, too. I think the guy who put your gun back together really messed up.
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Old 04-26-2007, 07:48 PM #14
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.... don't give your gun to any service tech unless they have any experience on NMEs. they may be good with timmies but it's always the small differences that kill you.

as for the eye issue. your eye wires are most likely pinched. if it's really bad, then you may have to do some soldering to remove the damaged area and add in a segment. however, remeov the eye covers and check your eyes, there should be TWO o-rings on the front, a clearish one and a black one. if they are both not there, then the eyes may be missaligned or damaged.

as for the gun not firing, make sure there are no crimped hoses or blocked airways going to the niod. also, be sure that your poppet is not OVER greased. when i first got my gun i didnt know how much lube to put so i put a **** load of DOW55. one, it gummed up, two it clogged up the who thing and 3, the o-ring swelled so the seal got much tighter. be sure to check that too. honestly, i'd deal with this problem before the eye problem because you can't check the eye problem without the bolt running

this also just occured to me, BE SURE THAT THE BOARD CONNECTIONS TO AND FROM THE SOLINOID ARE GOING IN THE RIGHT WAY. it's possible they may be disconnnected.

browse through this aswell
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1846174
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Old 04-27-2007, 03:40 AM #15
legbaa
 
 
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It was a little - tiny - piece of wire that got inside and sticked to the mainboard causing temporary malfunction.

Today or tomorrow i will have the marker back and start working on it.

I will update results of your advice... soon.
thx
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Old 04-27-2007, 07:35 PM #16
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hope it works
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Old 05-02-2007, 03:02 AM #17
legbaa
 
 
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LPR and HPR relubed.
I changed one thing. Moved ram/bolt a little forward - because when ball was in the breech there was a gap between detents ball and bolt 3milimeters. When i looked stight to the breech i couldnt see top of the bolt. Ball was able to roll out from the eyes.

I set LPR to about 85-90. Dweel 8. BIP 15. ROF 15. EyeMode 2. Eye power 6.

I shot about 100-150 balls. No problem with shooting fast. But NME ate about 1000PSI from my tank 68cu with 2000psi. I observerd also that some balls broke in the barrel.
Changed dwell to 7, roff to 10, LPR to 70-75. Also no problem with shooting fast.

To sum up - 280-300 balls ate around 1950PSI from my tank.

Is it normal ? that NME takes so lot of air?
IMHO no.
What to check? What to change?
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Old 05-02-2007, 03:33 AM #18
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I almost forgot...
Nothing is leaking i think - i can not hear air leaking from the hoses, lpr or hpr.
Bolt and RAM orings are in a good state.
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Old 05-02-2007, 08:38 AM #19
Brute06
 
 
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You should change out those ram o-rings just to be safe. If that front o-ring is worn or too small, it could cause the air to just pass by the ram without bringing it back fast enough. One time my o-rings looked fine, but the back o-ring was too small. The air would pass it by enough that my first shot had terrible velocity, the balls would barely make it out of the barrel. Every shot after that got a little quicker, but the gun just wasn't shooting right. It also was getting really bad air efficiency. Try to change those o-rings and see if you notice any change.
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