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Old 02-07-2002, 09:32 PM #1
Shockwave
 
 
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To those having problems with the FREEFLOW MOD:

I understand from reading your posts that many of you are not likeing the freeflow mod. I see posts saying that attaining velocity is hard as well as the suffering from the low first shot.

Here is what I believe the benifits of the free flow mod are:
1) A more reliable LPR. The rock's seat is more durable than the stock angel's LPR, and is less prone to creep.
2) A more stable LPR. The rock's pressure ratio is much higher than the stock angel's LPR and will result in more consistant shots. (For those of you who dont' know what ratio is, it basically means for X amount of input change, Y amount of output will change. I.E. 30 to 1 ratio means that if the input into the reg changes 30 psi, then the output will change 1 psi.
3) A higher flowing LPR. The benefits of this are hard to judge. The angel's flash tank plate is so flow restrictive, its hard to tell what the true bottleneck is.
4) A TRUE low pressure chamber for the angel.

Notice that I did not say anything about less chops. Nor did i say anything about stopping on balls.

Here is what I have deduced by my personal experience with the freeflow mod. The free flow mod works best at stock pressure settings, i.e. 85 psi. You guys are probally thinking i'm an idiot. "Well, its supposed to lower the cocking pressure, blah blah blah."

True, it can lower the cocking pressure, but when you lower the angel's cocking pressure, it results in some problems.
1) Low velocity. Unless you hit the valve open with a certain amount of force, it will be hard to get decent velocity.
2) Low first shot. When you are pushing the ram with less amount of air pressure, it may work, but not as reliabily as with a higher pressure. I believe that when you let your gun sit, the ram tends to "stick". This extra friction resulting from allowing the gun to sit is easily overcome by the 85 psi of the stock gun, but at lower pressures, it will result in a low first shot. Matrix owners will know exactly what i am talking about, thats why they must keep their bolts sooo lubed.
3) Horrible performance after a break. When you have paint/debris on the bolt after gettin a break for some horrible reason, there will be more friction on the bolt. This will cause the bolt to move slower. With the free flow mod operating at lower cocking pressures, it becomes too hard for the gun to overcome the extra friction resulting in the bolt stuttering, or in low velocity. This can be compared to a spyder with a lot of debris in the bolt tube. The hammer/bolt assembly will move slower, therefore resulting in lower velocities.

So, in my opinion, run your freeflow mods at 85 psi. You will have the benefit of a gun that is more reliable than trying to "push the envelope" with a really low cocking pressure. You WILL get lower operating pressure due to the incredible amount of volume available to the gun's valve due to the removal of the LPR. I noticed that lowering the gun's operating pressure drastically reduced kick, and i found that my gun shot +/-1 consistantly.

While the freeflow mod does not reliably do what it sets out to, i believe that it is a very worthwhile mod if you set it up properly.

Any more questions or hypothesis, please post back, i'm interested in what you guys think of what i have to say.
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Old 02-07-2002, 10:12 PM #2
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So what you are saying at the end there, is that you lowered the input pressure on your mini reg somewhat.
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Old 02-07-2002, 10:14 PM #3
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Shock btw. Did you install the ERA yourself (is it easy to do?) or did you send your marker to Ethan?
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Old 02-07-2002, 10:36 PM #4
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Thumbs up

Shockwave hit the nail on the head, using the rock for the lpr, gives you a reliable LPR that will not faulter, and will yield GREAT consistency. People forget that not only is a good airsystem + reg combo required, but a good lpr is also required for great consistency. The Rock does this. Feeding the ram the exact same psi every time will give you the consistency most people only dream about.

If you don't mind Shockwave, please add your first post to the "Useful Angel Information" post that is sticky'd.

Good job.

Mike
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Old 02-07-2002, 11:07 PM #5
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yes, i installed it myself.. its pretty easy, just gotta be sure you have some o-rings on hand in case you nick any while installing them.. oh, u gotta have an angel tool kit too..
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Old 02-08-2002, 05:47 AM #6
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hey shockwave how u doin, i personaly have shot his old angel with the era and omg the gun turns into a quiet anti-chopping machine and for those who have problems pro paintball has always been good to me so they should take care of it for u
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Old 02-09-2002, 09:51 PM #7
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I agree with shockwave on his points about lowering the ram pressure; but if you put a softer spring in front of the valve I think you could lower your ram pressure without loosing velocity... or am I wrong on this point??
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Old 02-09-2002, 10:33 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cowboy
I agree with shockwave on his points about lowering the ram pressure; but if you put a softer spring in front of the valve I think you could lower your ram pressure without loosing velocity... or am I wrong on this point??
yes, that would help with the velocity problem, but not with the first low shot problem, or with the debris/broken paint issue.

Perhaps if someone replaced all the o-rings in the ram with "low drag" ones, like people are doing with the matrix, the first low shot problem would go away.
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Old 02-10-2002, 02:23 AM #9
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hmm guess i should pay more attention to the angel stuff, i didnt know someone else was doing this, ive done it to my tribals for awhile.

but the ones we did on angels we used teflon o-rings on the ram piston and seal, it helps alot with the first shot prob, but we still also run the lpr at 75-85 psi, and made our own valve.

heres a pic of one guys angel we did, im not sure if you can see the rock or not, it used to have a huge jackhammer for awhile then when the newer micro rocks came out we used one of those.
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File Type: jpg ang 2.jpg (31.0 KB, 524 views)
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Old 02-10-2002, 09:40 PM #10
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And then there are some that don't work at ANY pressure, and even propaintball can't get it to work, despite trying two times....
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Old 02-11-2002, 02:09 AM #11
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I think PP has their heads up their collective ***** right now Styles, getting 3 frickin' parts for my cocker has taken so long that I've said to hell with it, and just gave up.

What Shockwave posted was exactly what I told ft57 many months ago when I was considering this mod.

Mike
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Old 02-11-2002, 11:17 PM #12
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Pro has had my angel for a couple of months now waiting on parts. The last shipment was defective so more waiting.
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Old 02-12-2002, 09:39 AM #13
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I got my ripper back from the Animal batch un anodized because I was still collecting parts to be anodized. Originally I was going to ship to Pro since they are local, but I have been hearing many stories of late, both online and locally, that caused me to think otherwise......so yesterday it was off to my friends at Adrenalin!!

I heard that Ethan is having some personal probems. I do hope things get better for him soon, he is a good guy!!
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Old 11-24-2003, 10:00 PM #14
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Yeah, things at Pro are pretty hectic right now. They only have a couple advanced gun techs working right now as well. They play in all the national events, so it leaves gaps of time where things don't get done. Pro is good to their customers though, they'll make it right for you.
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Old 11-24-2003, 11:05 PM #15
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hmmm tom, just about 2 years old now.
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Old 11-25-2003, 04:22 PM #16
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That is sweet.
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Old 11-25-2003, 05:46 PM #17
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Quote:
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hmmm tom, just about 2 years old now.
It was just recently stickied, I thought it was new.

I'm dumb.
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Old 11-25-2003, 06:12 PM #18
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haha this thread did pop up out of no where.
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Old 11-25-2003, 06:22 PM #19
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yeah
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Old 11-27-2003, 03:19 PM #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by PPro
Yeah, things at Pro are pretty hectic right now. They only have a couple advanced gun techs working right now as well. They play in all the national events, so it leaves gaps of time where things don't get done. Pro is good to their customers though, they'll make it right for you.
LOLOLOL

Sorry... my bad. I had meant to sticky this in the WDP Archives.


At least it shows how hard you try to help others. That's what matters the most. Just like Radio Shack (but not exactly),"We've got questions, You've got answers".
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Old 01-04-2004, 04:00 PM #21
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Anyone know if freeflow will be producing one for the speed? I think that could really help the gun
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