Are god/jesus real?

Plan B 13 · 04-03-2007, 06:50 PM

Discuss.

NEp8ntballer · 04-03-2007, 06:53 PM

we already have a do you believe in god thread. this one is completely unnecessary.

**** you 45 second rule

Uber-Balla · 04-03-2007, 06:55 PM

Its all in the eye of the beholder. So my vote goes with yes.

cryptic.paintball · 04-03-2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uber-Balla

Its all in the eye of the beholder. So my vote goes with yes.

It has nothing to do with individual belief but what is empircially supported or not.

Plan B 13 · 04-03-2007, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEp8ntballer

we already have a do you believe in god thread. this one is completely unnecessary.

**** you 45 second rule

This one is if jesus/god is real not if believe it or not.

And i meant to vote no.

Ionbluemaster8011 · 04-03-2007, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plan B 13

This one is if jesus/god is real not if believe it or not.

And i meant to vote no.

Why do you vote no? All science has proven that Jesus did live. Most religions believe he lived. What is was is still up for debate. Wether he was God or not is a different question. Wether God exists is based on your research and your convictions. I believe they are both real and we can talk to God and Jesus saved us from going to hell.

Ben.haK (Banned) · 04-03-2007, 07:03 PM

If you want them to be.

Plan B 13 · 04-03-2007, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ionbluemaster8011

Why do you vote no? All science has proven that Jesus did live. Most religions believe he lived. What is was is still up for debate. Wether he was God or not is a different question. Wether God exists is based on your research and your convictions. I believe they are both real and we can talk to God and Jesus saved us from going to hell.

Neccesary a god is a being that is worth worshipping, so if there is no being worth worshipping there cannot be a god.

Not any of the existing religions can provide such a god. How do we know if there are no undiscovered beings worthy our submission? Well if there is a being that has either failed or not tried to communicate with us that being is not worth worshipping either, so the ontological evidence against god holds, even without complete knowledge of the world.

There is a test, based on the ontological evidence against god, that you can do to try the existence of god. Pray, and ask god to provide you with a clear proof for his existence within a week. After that week, if you have got a proof that god exists, send me the evidence. If not, there are only three reasons I can think of that are plausible: (1) God does not exist, (2) God does not want to or (3) God can't give you this evidence. Because of the ontological evidence, alternative (2) and (3) are not worth your worship and thus they equal alternative (1). So if you get no response there is no god.

http://www.update.uu.se/~fbendz/nogod/no_god.htm

Ionbluemaster8011 · 04-03-2007, 07:14 PM

Well have you read the bible. The Christian faith can prove ther is a God. I have seen and listen to people who God has intervened and changed thier life. I saw a guy who had been trained as a muslim in aferica to kill all Christians. One night he went to kill some christians. He was going to start a fire at thier meeting. When he went to light the match it would not light he tried again and again it would not light. That night he whnt home and asked God to show that he wa real. A wind blew and opend to a verse in the Koran, the muslim holy book, that verse proved theri was a God to him. If you dont belive me ok but how can you explain the beginnig of the world.

cryptic.paintball · 04-03-2007, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ionbluemaster8011

Well have you read the bible. The Christian faith can prove ther is a God. I have seen and listen to people who God has intervened and changed thier life. I saw a guy who had been trained as a muslim in aferica to kill all Christians. One night he went to kill some christians. He was going to start a fire at thier meeting. When he went to light the match it would not light he tried again and again it would not light. That night he whnt home and asked God to show that he wa real. A wind blew and opend to a verse in the Koran, the muslim holy book, that verse proved theri was a God to him. If you dont belive me ok but how can you explain the beginnig of the world.

Proof?

Atheists do not pretend to know how the world started, but instead of following a mythological story we search out the answer.

Uber-Balla · 04-03-2007, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plan B 13

Neccesary a god is a being that is worth worshipping, so if there is no being worth worshipping there cannot be a god.

Not any of the existing religions can provide such a god. How do we know if there are no undiscovered beings worthy our submission? Well if there is a being that has either failed or not tried to communicate with us that being is not worth worshipping either, so the ontological evidence against god holds, even without complete knowledge of the world.

There is a test, based on the ontological evidence against god, that you can do to try the existence of god. Pray, and ask god to provide you with a clear proof for his existence within a week. After that week, if you have got a proof that god exists, send me the evidence. If not, there are only three reasons I can think of that are plausible: (1) God does not exist, (2) God does not want to or (3) God can't give you this evidence. Because of the ontological evidence, alternative (2) and (3) are not worth your worship and thus they equal alternative (1). So if you get no response there is no god.

http://www.update.uu.se/~fbendz/nogod/no_god.htm

I agree so for all you lost people I will define god.

God

1. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
2. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.

# A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.
# An image of a supernatural being; an idol.

Ionbluemaster8011 · 04-03-2007, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic.paintball

Proof?

Atheists do not pretend to know how the world started, but instead of following a mythological story we search out the answer.

It takes more faith to believe there is no God than that there is. whatever the god may be allah, budda, or a hindu god.

cryptic.paintball · 04-03-2007, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ionbluemaster8011

It takes more faith to believe there is no God than that there is. whatever the god may be allah, budda, or a hindu god.

I guess evidence to the contrary of your belief system takes faith in your eyes. I can lay my hands on the empirical evidence of my beliefs. Can you?

Overbear · 04-03-2007, 07:21 PM

I voted IDC because in the end...I realy don't. I am going to live my life as I see fit, and not by some made up book of fiction.

Uber-Balla · 04-03-2007, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overbear

I voted IDC because in the end...I realy don't. I am going to live my life as I see fit, and not by some made up book of fiction.

I agree.

Ionbluemaster8011 · 04-03-2007, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic.paintball

I guess evidence to the contrary of your belief system takes faith in your eyes. I can lay my hands on the empirical evidence of my beliefs. Can you?

Yes i believe that everything in this natural world was created by my God. So every human is an image of God. So i can tough a human. Jesus was the perfect example.( do you belive that Jesus the person lived on this earth?) Do you believe the complexity of the human body happened by accident. I am guessing you believe in evolution. i may be wrong but that is my assumpion.

Ionbluemaster8011 · 04-03-2007, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overbear

I voted IDC because in the end...I realy don't. I am going to live my life as I see fit, and not by some made up book of fiction.

are you saying the BIble or the Koran are fiction.

Mastermind26 · 04-03-2007, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cryptic.paintball

I guess evidence to the contrary of your belief system takes faith in your eyes. I can lay my hands on the empirical evidence of my beliefs. Can you?

But then it wouldn't be a belief. Faith is not about what can be proven for a person to trust it. Faith is about trust. Yes, to a person who will not trust it will seem illogical and foolish and even ignorant, but from ignorance to knowledge is only a matter of the number of people who agree with your POV. People of faith can refer to people with no faith as foolish and ignorant of the things pertaining to the faith and likewise the faithless to the faithful.

Plan B 13 · 04-03-2007, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ionbluemaster8011

Yes i believe that everything in this natural world was created by my God. So every human is an image of God. So i can tough a human. Jesus was the perfect example.( do you belive that Jesus the person lived on this earth?) Do you believe the complexity of the human body happened by accident. I am guessing you believe in evolution. i may be wrong but that is my assumpion.

So god created Rapist, Murders, Psychopaths, etc.?

cryptic.paintball · 04-03-2007, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ionbluemaster8011

are you saying the BIble or the Koran are fiction.

Much of what is in them is taken from previous pagan religions/beliefs that are now considered to be myth.

Mastermind26 · 04-03-2007, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ionbluemaster8011

are you saying the BIble or the Koran are fiction.

Overbear believes man to be "gods" since he can only see people who put humanity ONLY as people all other he holds a disdain. Yes, he has made statements to that effect. I'm sure overbear will correct me and clarify this.