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Old 04-02-2007, 05:28 PM #1
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What I believe

Alright, I'm tired of people asking me what I believe as an aspiring Christian and Scientist. So yes, this thread is just for my specific idea. I believe it is somewhat unique as I was not taught this in a textbook or a Bible, but rather it came from rational spiritual thinking (however "rational" spiritual thinking can be)

Surely the scientific evidence isn't able to be ignored, like it is by some. And no, it CAN NOT be twisted to fit Biblical Creation (Dinosaurs were vegetarians? Get real). ID is too convenient and seems more like a last ditch effort to cling to "scientific" Christianity. (Disclaimer: These are my opinions)

I've posted this before (last week), but never really cemented the idea. And when I did post it, it was ignored.

Let's start, I'll simplify this and give you lists of premises and conclusions. Please read the following with an open mind, and for some of you, an imagination.

God created a tree. Not a seed, a tree. Would that fully grown tree have rings?
God created a bird. Not an egg - a bird. Was it sexually mature and able to lay more eggs?
God created a man. Was it a pair of gametes, zygote, or a full-grown man? It was a man.

Now, apply science to these things. Surprise, you can't. If you count the rings of the tree, you can date a freshly made tree to 100 years ago. You see a bird, you assume it came from an egg, but it didn't. You see a man, measure his bones, you'll say he's 30 years old.

Now, I don't want to get off on a rant here but, God created the Earth. Was it brand new, or did it have mountains, canyons, and gardens? Are fossils and geological phenomena a byproduct of his creation?

Conclusion: God created a 6 billion year old Earth in 6 days.

Many will object that God wouldn't be so deceptive, but I ask unto you, is it God who is deceptive, or is it man? Were Darwin, Dawkins, Morgan, Dobzhansky, Linnaeus, (et cetera) men or gods?

...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:38 PM #2
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I believe it is somewhat unique as I was not taught this in a textbook or a Bible, but rather it came from rational spiritual thinking
What's funny is that a God who really wanted himself to be known would give you a book with his exact thoughts and guidelines on every specific issue to ever come up.
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:40 PM #3
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every specific issue to ever come up.
How practical would it be to give us a book we can't:

a) reference
b) comprehend
c) hold on this planet
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:41 PM #4
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you still havent answered this question.


why did you convert? what are the reasons?
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:42 PM #5
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How practical would it be to give us a book we can't:
How practical is it to give us a book at all?
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:44 PM #6
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How practical is it to give us a book at all?
Well your point is only valid to say that He didn't give us a book and gave us inspired word - man gave us a book.

I guess you win?
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:45 PM #7
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Many will object that God wouldn't be so deceptive, but I ask unto you, is it God who is deceptive, or is it man? Were Darwin, Dawkins, Morgan, Dobzhansky, Linnaeus, (et cetera) men or gods?
So is your implication that all of humanity's greatest scientific thinkers were liars? I would make the claim that man is deceptive by nature, that's why humanity created gods in the first place.
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:45 PM #8
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you still havent answered this question.

why did you convert? what are the reasons?
No reasons. I was having a great day hanging out with friends, pole vaulting last Spring, I went home, started reading some literature when I just had this overwhelming feeling of God.
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:46 PM #9
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So is your implication that all of humanity's greatest scientific thinkers were liars? I would make the claim that man is deceptive by nature, that's why humanity created gods in the first place.
No, lying requires knowledge of the Truth, these men did not know the truth.

By deception, I mean putting out unknowingly false doctrine.

However with the exception of Darwin, the men I listed were complete jackasses; especially Linnaeus.
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:46 PM #10
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No reasons. I was having a great day hanging out with friends, pole vaulting last Spring, I went home, started reading some literature when I just had this overwhelming feeling of God.
so you had an emotion and instantly its god?

i get emotions and have feelings when i watch movies, are movies god?
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:48 PM #11
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Well your point is only valid to say that He didn't give us a book and gave us inspired word - man gave us a book.

I guess you win?
Thanks?

He gave us many of the words which fill that text, which is equally as impractical. God's actions justified in mere words? Describing his actions of pure perfection to those of imperfection?

I suppose this is irrelevant to the purpose of your thread. On to more pressing matters...
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:50 PM #12
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so you had an emotion and instantly its god?

i get emotions and have feelings when i watch movies, are movies god?
Thanks for the oversimplified straw-man argument.
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:51 PM #13
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Thanks?

He gave us many of the words which fill that text, which is equally as impractical. God's actions justified in mere words? Describing his actions of pure perfection to those of imperfection?

I suppose this is irrelevant to the purpose of your thread. On to more pressing matters...
Maybe its different to believers. I feel like He justifies Himself daily on His actions. But perception affects reality, I suppose.
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:51 PM #14
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MVP would it be safe to say that you don't attempt to rationalize or prove the existence of your God, but instead your belief in God is based on faith?
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:53 PM #15
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Yup, my parents gave birth to me last night too, its amazing I came out almost 17 years old with all these notions of memories nudging at my brain. Do you have any scientific explanation how you can create a galaxy that appears to be at least billions of years old?

I ask you this. If a man was created, that man could not have had belly button, but please tell me you beleive he at least created more than one man and one woman to start our population?
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:54 PM #16
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MVP would it be safe to say that you don't attempt to rationalize or prove the existence of your God, but instead your belief in God is based on faith?
Yes, this is just an explanation of some of the things we see on Earth.
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:55 PM #17
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No, lying requires knowledge of the Truth, these men did not know the truth.

By deception, I mean putting out unknowingly false doctrine.

However with the exception of Darwin, the men I listed were complete jackasses; especially Linnaeus.
From Wiki: "Deception is the manipulation of perception to alter thoughts and feelings through lies and cleverness.

Deception involves concepts like propaganda, distraction and concealment. Fiction, while sometimes manipulative, is not a deception unless it is portrayed as the whole truth; not to be confused with half-truths.

In many cases it is difficult to distinguish deception from providing unintentionally wrong information. One of the reasons for this is that a person or an entire organization may be self-deceived."

I don't think you're using that term at all correctly.
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:56 PM #18
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Yup, my parents gave birth to me last night too, its amazing I came out almost 17 years old with all these notions of memories nudging at my brain. Do you have any scientific explanation how you can create a galaxy that appears to be at least billions of years old?

I ask you this. If a man was created, that man could not have had belly button, but please tell me you beleive he at least created more than one man and one woman to start our population?
I'm not sure how they date how old galaxies are, but I can't see any objections to my explanation regarding the universe that it wouldn't work.

The Bible says God created a man, not 1 man.
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:58 PM #19
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I'm not sure how they date how old galaxies are, but I can't see any objections to my explanation regarding the universe that it wouldn't work.

The Bible says God created a man, not 1 man.
So would the first man have a belly button or not?
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:58 PM #20
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From Wiki: "Deception is the manipulation of perception to alter thoughts and feelings through lies and cleverness.

Deception involves concepts like propaganda, distraction and concealment. Fiction, while sometimes manipulative, is not a deception unless it is portrayed as the whole truth; not to be confused with half-truths.

In many cases it is difficult to distinguish deception from providing unintentionally wrong information. One of the reasons for this is that a person or an entire organization may be self-deceived."

I don't think you're using that term at all correctly.
Philosophers often define words differently to fit their premise. Its not the word that is important, but the definition or concept which the composer creates.

I'm no philosopher, but I see no reason why I can't do it too.
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Old 04-02-2007, 05:59 PM #21
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So would the first man have a belly button or not?
I can tell you what I believe, but I'll ask you this first: Why does it matter? Their children had bellybuttons, we have bellybuttons...
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