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Old 01-06-2007, 06:31 PM #106
assassinationACI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodpusher91 View Post
kick also there is no way that a poppet kicks less than a spool so saying an ego kicks less than an angel would be absurd. that angel would have to be set up terribly and the ego to perfection.
I dont know if your stupid or not, but an angel is not a spool valve gun. It is in fact an electro pneumatic poppit marker, probably the first ram driven electro pneumatic that started around 98 99. An Angel definitely kicks more than an Ego and the Fusion. The Shocker indeed have a very minimal kick, but its quality is not very good. Not sure what shockers you've owned, but all of the ones ive owned has their anodizing wear off, their efficiency suck without an HE bolt even with it isnt that good. Ive own dozens of guns in my past, I currently quit, so i own nothing, but eventually going back next year summer. In my sig you can see my last marker which was the PM6, and before that was my ST Intimidator, and Before that was the Fusion. I had a pre-production Fusion, and it sure did was as good as people said it was. I didnt have one problem with it. It kick less than my Intimidator, and was much much more efficient than the matrices and freestyles ive owned in the past. I have nothing to argue since im not into paintball as much as i used to. But many people in here are to biased. The quality of The Fusion is flawless, but then maybe its just the pre-production markers since there wasnt any problems with the first fusions out except for the 2nd and 3rd batches. My Fusion never had any creeping problems like what ive seen in here, which is kind of weird. Maybe DP perfected the first released batch but kinda rushed the other batches. PM me if you guys want me to compare with other markers. Ive also owned a Legend, it kicked more than The Fusion but was a bit more efficient. It was harder to tech, and stripped my top screw on the grips. I hated the way you had to take the ram out, unscrew rear screw of the trigger frame and you have to pull the ram cap out. The design without an LPR was sure cool, but i couldnt adjust it to my liking, so the kick remained constant, you couldnt lower the LPR and make the dwell higher to accomodate with the colder weather. Eventually sold it, and bought parts for my new car. That was the last days of my paintball life.

EDIT: woodpusher im sorry if calling you stupid offended you, but i was a little mad that you are stating a wrong statement and even disagreed with the guy that was right calling him wrong. But the angel has 3 tubes, top tube holds the bolt, the right bottom has the ram and solenoid inside, thats why the bolt pin on the bolt is slanted, the bottom left holds the battery (on some angels) and also holds air.
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Last edited by assassinationACI : 01-06-2007 at 06:35 PM.
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Old 01-06-2007, 06:51 PM #107
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Fusions Rock!!!!!!
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Old 01-06-2007, 07:29 PM #108
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Old 01-06-2007, 10:39 PM #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikkowns View Post
i Know the designer of the dp fusion. it is one of the best values around. i can compare it to egos and timmies that i have owned. imo the fusion is just as good after you work out the kinks. and... has any one ever had a gun work FLAWLESSLY from the beginning?

yes, some guns do work flawlessly from the begginning, one of them is called the FEP quest. just thought i might point that out., but whatever
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Old 01-06-2007, 11:42 PM #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sc0ttyb0y View Post
yes, some guns do work flawlessly from the begginning, one of them is called the FEP quest. just thought i might point that out., but whatever
yeah.. i guess you blinked for 3 months when all the threads about bounce and goldmember bolts breaking in half bloomed.
i had an fep quest, goldmember bolt broke, got the newer version and sold it.
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Old 01-07-2007, 01:37 AM #111
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My friend's angel had 0 kick.I couldn't feel any kick! I believe his angel needed the key, and that is was like a 99 or 2000 . The tank was scary, every time he pushed the on/off button. it'd make a FASHHHHHHHH sound, very loud. I'm not very knowledgeable about angels though.
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Old 01-07-2007, 01:45 AM #112
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Every gun has its problems. Every gun has its benefits. The spool style markers have the ability to have less kick with a good bolt. Ram operated guns can have little kick but it will be more than an equally well setup spooler. Its just the way the physics works out. A blow forward design(ion) will also have more kick than a full EP balanced bolt spooler(Dm) as you dont have to fight the OP to cycle the bolt. Some examples use very light bolts and have great settings that show very very little kick but an equal setup on a full EP spooler will have less kick. Also the FASOR system will have more kick than a full EP due to the need to increase the LPR to over come the spring. Any given example may be better or worse than another given example but being equally well setup the full EP has less kick. Ram style guns have always been better on gas. I honestly dont know why as spool valve guns often seem to be setup just like a popit gun minus the pushing of the valve pin. Maybe you can just get better flow with a popit. EP guns rely less on orings sealing which is a benefit as there is less to go wrong. What its worth is up to the owner but it is a benefit. All styles can be heavy or light.

All of the mid range guns have great value but they all have problems/draw backs. To me the PMR comes in as the worst value. It is so much like an Ion that for the extra money spent on it I can have an outstanding Ion that has all of the parts on it I want.

The fusion comes in next. You can get a nice wrath or other FASOR gun with lighter internals, new boards, all the works for the price of a fusion. Also some hate the frame feel. Its not much of an issue to me but is a concern. At the end of the day though I could have gone out and picked up an old used 2k2 style timmy with an amazing board, a new hammer, a new bolt. I just dont see the reason to pay the fusions price when there are so many amazing guns that have been out and proven, and have a ton of upgrades in the same range that give equal or better performance in what matters to me. Maybe when the used market sees its share I will change my tune but for now Ill take a DM4 instead and live with the less efficiency and extra weight for the amazing lack of kick or a 2k2 timmy for the fact they can be found cheaper with a frame I like more.

Then I put the ion just for the fact you can get a stock used one for 125 easily, a new one for 200, and if you do it all with quality aftermarket parts and start from scratch you can have a killer setup(loaded board, very very light bolt, regulator of your choice, all metal body(no shell), and a frame that fits you(take your pick) along with cocker threads instead of ion threads) out the door for 400 bucks. That gun will run basically with everything out there without a hitch and looks sharp to boot.

The best in the mid range would be the mini WHEN it gets the bugs worked out, again in my eyes. The current run have as little kick as you can get with a paintball gun. They seem to have decent efficiency. The lack of being able to change the front grip with your favorite reg means NOTHING to me as the stock setup has reports of getting amazing consistency which is why I change regs. The stock board is ok but seems to have a few bugs right now which is why I wouldnt pay full price for one right now. Its so small, so tight, light, and has such a lack of kick. The kick is the main thing that matters to me now a days. I can live with refilling a tank often. I dont want to live with a marker that kicks when another can be had that doesnt. So that is how I rate them for what matters to me. Again this is JUST what I LIKE.

Here though is the real moral of this post:

All are good guns. All give you a hell of a setup for relatively little money. All are capable of eliminating players. All have ups and downs. If one works good for you and is what you like then that is what I think you should buy. If you want what I want then follow how I rated them and listen to the reasons I gave. If you want something else than what I want then rate them how it fits you. Dont listen to people online as to what is better as unless you think identical to them you wont find how they weigh all of the ups and downs to be how you weigh them making their opinion worth much less than yours. There is enough information out here to see what each gun does well and what are its problem areas. Read up on them and then pick based on YOUR thoughts and findings along with how the guns feel to YOU.

In the case of mid range guns many people will make claims about how one guns material is better/worse than another. Its all hype. The manufacturers CANT put out a product that doesnt take abuse like the rest of the market and stay in business. No amount of money savings would keep you from losing on a defective product that cant last through normal play. Ive used metal frames, Ive used plastic frames. Ive used expensive guns and cheap guns. Feeling cheap goes away when you play. Feeling solid and sturdy may not but saying a plastic material feeling cheap doesnt mean much when you are worrying about the game. If a frame is flexible or doesnt attach solidly then that is a problem. But quality DOESNT mean METAL. There are crappy metals and crappy polymers/plastics. There are quality metals and quality polymers/plastics. Dont go over board on the general type of metal used. Look at the qualities of the specific material used which can be good or bad no matter what it is, which is often only available as long term use of a gun of a given material.

Buy what you like. Pick what you want. Paintball is about fun to 99.9999% of us. Use what you enjoy. Dont use what you dont enjoy. If one marker makes your day better use it. If one marker makes you dislike playing then dont use that. People take to defending their decisions so far that it is out of control. We get to the point we dont care about other peoples feelings and enjoyment and get to where we feel we need to convert everyone. Beyond informing people of any missed benefits of a gun that should be taken into consideration we should let it all go and just be glad another player is happy to be playing.
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Old 01-07-2007, 04:21 AM #113
skillyherman
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Wow ^^^^, I have not owned either myself but I have shot both. The Pmr is a great gun for the price, I really dislike the rubber stuff on the trigger and feed neck. Other then those cosmetic details, I thought is was an awesome gun. The Fusion is slightly "blocky" as far as looks but is a very fast marker and can sustain high rates of fire very well. I felt like the fusion was an all over amazing gun. Out of the box, I would go with the Fusion. If I had to buy one myself I would go with the Pmr, because with about $50 of upgrades it would be a near perfect setup. They are light and have mostly good stock parts. They also have a much better resale value than the Fusion. Thats just what I think. I've been doing research and I am probably going to be picking up a Pmr in the near future. Another upside to the Pmr is the ability to upgrade to the ultralight frame, which is probably the most comfortable frame that I have ever held. Thats what I think but other people may have different opinions and views.

Last edited by skillyherman : 01-07-2007 at 04:31 AM.
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Old 01-07-2007, 11:02 AM #114
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i thought this thread was dead a couple of days ago
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Old 01-08-2007, 04:45 PM #115
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Fusions are garbage. End of story.
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Old 01-08-2007, 04:51 PM #116
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