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Old 12-14-2006, 01:46 PM #43
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Originally Posted by paintball288 View Post
so is it ok to masturbate if you don't lust, or is masturbation considered a form of sex
So what you are asking is, is it okay to masturbate, so long as you're not lusting?

Well first off, we can not justify a physical sin by mentally distracting ourselves from our actions. It's like asking if it's okay to shoplift a CD as long as you are thinking about feeding the homeless. Your mind may be doing one thing, but your actions say another. You could even compare it to the kiss of Judas. His body showed love to Christ, but his intentions were full of sin. When you masturbate while trying not to lust, it's kind of like doing the reverse. You are supposedly doing something noble with your mind, and something disordered with the gift of your sexuality.You see, the problem with masturbation is not simply the lust of the imagination, but the impurity of the body.

What's going on is that you're trying to bargain with the devil. Theology and scripture tells us that Satan is an exceptionally cunning fallen angel. The name "Lucifer" means "light-bearer," and all of this means that his intellectual abilities far surpass anyone on the planet. So, when you try to cut a deal with him, you lose . . . every time. How many times has he duped us into thinking, "Oh, it's not that big of a sin. God will understand. I can go to confession. How am I supposed to be perfect? It will just be this one time. Etc."? We should not reason with our lust, we must rebuke it.
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:48 PM #44
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I think masturbation is a sin because you're wasting your seed as well as lusting. God favors procreation.
I agree with this statement and would like to add further to the question of why masturbation is wrong since no one is apparently being harmed.

Actually, scientific evidence seems to show that masturbation is harmful for both men and women. If you have ever taken a class in psychology, you probably learned about Pavlov's dog. Pavlov was a guy who rang a bell every time he was about to feed his dog. By doing this, the dog came to associate the bell with food, and would begin salivating at the sound of the bell. This is known as a trained response.

The human mind can be trained in the same way. In fact, the pleasure center of the brain is the most easily trained part of the human mind. This center is called the Medial Pre-optic Nucleus (MPN), and when the body experiences great pleasure, as in a sexual release, this part of the brain is rewarded. According to the research of Dr. Douglas Weiss,(1) when a person experiences sexual arousal, the brain releases endorphins that help train the MPN to associate pleasure with whatever the person is doing, looking at, smelling, and so on. Unconsciously, a person forms a bond between a particular image, scent, or person and the feeling of sexual pleasure. (That's one reason they put perfume samples in porn magazines).

This bond is further solidified by the release of a neuropeptide called oxytocin during sexual release. This also creates a bond between people during a sexual act. If a person is alone, it still creates a mental bond with whomever he is fantasizing about. However, this bonding mechanism is damaged through casual sexual arousal (2)

This scientific discovery sheds new light on Paul's words: "Do you not know that he who joins himself to a prostitute becomes one body with her? For, as it is written, 'The two shall become one flesh.' . . . Shun immorality. Every other sin which a man commits is outside the body; but the immoral man sins against his own body" (1 Cor. 6:16–18).

When a person experiences a sexual release while masturbating and lusting after another in his imagination, he is training his brain to be stimulated by fantasy images in his own mind. If this is what a man's or woman's brain identifies as the cause of sexual joy, then where does this leave his or her spouse one day? This is not a fantasy image, but a real human being. Yet instead of being able to take joy in the actual person in the marriage bed, the individual trained by masturbation may be driven to find stimulation in inner fantasies even while trying to make love to a spouse. Men and women may look to adultery, strip clubs, pornography, or a disordered lust for one another to satiate their desires. Often, especially for men, the habit of masturbation continues in order to take care of sexual "needs." This becomes a cancer in marriage.

Now, this does not mean that you are doomed to a dysfunctional marriage if you have ever experienced sexual pleasure with anyone other than your husband or wife. However, it does mean that you will have obstacles to overcome that those without such a history will not struggle with. The brain can be retrained, but it will take time according to how well-entrenched the habit of lust has become.

This should show us that God's plan for our sexuality is stamped into our anatomy. When people live according to God's truths, their bodies will associate sexual joy with their spouse. God has designed our bodies to ensure that a married couple will be physiologically drawn toward each other. Their minds have been trained that way. As the Bible says, "Let your fountain be yours alone, not one shared with strangers. And have joy of the wife of your youth, your lovely hind, your graceful doe. Her love will invigorate you always. Through her love you will flourish constantly" (Prov. 5:17–19).
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Old 12-14-2006, 01:55 PM #45
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But when you truely love someone and you are truely truely giving your heart and soul to them, sex isnt sex, its making love its that extra feeling you get along with it. Different people can give you the different feelings, married or not.
But what is love? Is it really about feelings at all? I think not. My definition of love used to be this overwhelming warm, fuzzy feeling. When you see them, the world seems beautiful, the birds are singing, and everything reminds you of them. Your heart races whenever they walk into the room.

That is "being in love." This emotional reaction is a lot of fun but we shouldn't confuse these feelings with love itself. Some people think that they can tell how long a relationship will last based upon how powerful the feelings of attraction are. They spend massive amounts of time trying to decide whether or not they're "in love."

What they're overlooking is that love is a decision to do what is best for another person, even if the warm fuzzies are long gone. But it's not enough to want to do what is good for the other. We must form our minds according to the truth that God has revealed so that we know what is good for the other, and we are not just doing whatever feels good. Once we know what is good for the other, all that remains is to follow through and live out that love in our actions.

So, how do you know if you love a woman? Pope John Paul II has answered this question perfectly by saying that "the greater the feeling of responsibility for the [beloved] the more true love there is."(1) The greatest example of this love is Christ. He alone perfectly reveals how to love a woman. If we ever need to know how to properly love a woman, all we need to do is look at a crucifix.

But we should put more thought into the matter. Who invented sex? What is sex? What is its purpose? What is it worth? For starters, God invented sex. Since he is its author, he knows its meaning and purpose better than we do. God has revealed that the purposes of sex are procreation and union (babies and bonding), and that the sexual act can be thought of as the wedding vows made flesh. The wedding vows are promises that your love will be free, faithful, total, and open to life. Each act of marital intercourse should be a renewal of these vows.

You see, sex is saying the wedding vows with your body instead of your voice. It is making a complete gift of yourself to another person. Consequently, it is obvious that premarital sex is dishonest-it is a lie in the language of the body. With your body, you are saying, "I give myself to you entirely. There is nothing more of me that I could give to you," but in reality there is no such commitment and gift of oneself. There is a total physical gift but no total gift of the person. The person is reduced to a loan or a lease because the body is given to the other only temporarily. In short, you are ready to have sex when your body speaks the truth: "I am entirely yours. FOREVER." In other words, no matter how much you think you "love" a person or how much feelings you have for them, only in marriage can one express true love through sex.

Last edited by NicoleW : 12-14-2006 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 12-14-2006, 02:43 PM #46
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But what is love? Is it really about feelings at all? I think not. My definition of love used to be this overwhelming warm, fuzzy feeling. When you see them, the world seems beautiful, the birds are singing, and everything reminds you of them. Your heart races whenever they walk into the room.

That is "being in love." This emotional reaction is a lot of fun but we shouldn't confuse these feelings with love itself. Some people think that they can tell how long a relationship will last based upon how powerful the feelings of attraction are. They spend massive amounts of time trying to decide whether or not they're "in love."

What they're overlooking is that love is a decision to do what is best for another person, even if the warm fuzzies are long gone. But it's not enough to want to do what is good for the other. We must form our minds according to the truth that God has revealed so that we know what is good for the other, and we are not just doing whatever feels good. Once we know what is good for the other, all that remains is to follow through and live out that love in our actions.

So, how do you know if you love a woman? Pope John Paul II has answered this question perfectly by saying that "the greater the feeling of responsibility for the [beloved] the more true love there is."(1) The greatest example of this love is Christ. He alone perfectly reveals how to love a woman. If we ever need to know how to properly love a woman, all we need to do is look at a crucifix.

But we should put more thought into the matter. Who invented sex? What is sex? What is its purpose? What is it worth? For starters, God invented sex. Since he is its author, he knows its meaning and purpose better than we do. God has revealed that the purposes of sex are procreation and union (babies and bonding), and that the sexual act can be thought of as the wedding vows made flesh. The wedding vows are promises that your love will be free, faithful, total, and open to life. Each act of marital intercourse should be a renewal of these vows.

You see, sex is saying the wedding vows with your body instead of your voice. It is making a complete gift of yourself to another person. Consequently, it is obvious that premarital sex is dishonest-it is a lie in the language of the body. With your body, you are saying, "I give myself to you entirely. There is nothing more of me that I could give to you," but in reality there is no such commitment and gift of oneself. There is a total physical gift but no total gift of the person. The person is reduced to a loan or a lease because the body is given to the other only temporarily. In short, you are ready to have sex when your bidy speaks the truth: "I am entirely yours. FOREVER." In other words, no matter how much you think you "love" a person or how much feelings you have for them, only in marriage can one express true love through sex.

^^^This is where it is at people. Like NicoleW said that love has been mistaken for feelings. Movies and TV shows have tried to tell us that love is when you get all fuzzy and lovey dovey but the truth is that "how many of these writers and directors of all these movies and tv shows we watch acually have loving relationships?" There are very few. So the best thing I would say is to not take their advice of what love is but turn to the Bible are read Jesus' love for us and also read Songs of Solomon (or Song of Songs, however your Bible labels it) and see God's love for the Church. That is true love!
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Old 12-14-2006, 06:20 PM #47
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So basically you are asking, what's wrong with masturbation? It's a way of getting rid of your temptations without leading anyone into sin.

Masturbation doesn't get rid of temptations any more than a prostitute does. Both may temporarily relieve sexual desires, but our goal as Christians is not simply to get rid of temptations, but to glorify God with our bodies. The idea that masturbation can be used to decrease sexual desires is like saying that lighter fluid can be used to extinguish a fire. If anything, masturbation incites lustful thoughts and teaches a person that he or she deserves--and needs--sexual gratification whenever the desire arises.

To understand why masturbation is wrong, we need to step back from the world's constant clamoring for sexual "needs" and go back to God's plan for sex. Sexuality is meant to be a gift between a husband and wife for the purpose of babies and bonding. When it is taken out of that context the gift is degraded--and in the case of masturbation, altogether ceases being a gift. The purpose of sexuality is abandoned, because the center of the sexual act becomes "me" instead of "we" and the person is trained to look to himself for sexual fulfillment. The gift of one's sexuality is misused for the sake of lifeless pleasure. Only selfless giving will fulfill you.

When people misuse their sexuality in this way, they begin to use pleasure to change their mood, release tension, or forget their loneliness. Masturbation becomes an escape. It may pacify them, but it will never satisfy them, because they'll always want more. They use the fantasies of their mind and the pleasures of their body to flee from reality and the call to love. Their goal in sexual activity has been reduced to merely receiving pleasure instead of showing love. If men and women have trained themselves to use their sexuality in this way, why would this suddenly change once they're married? The husband or wife will simply be a substitute for the fantasies, to be used in place of self. They may even imagine the fantasies while with their spouse. The problem is that the lust will be transferred to the other, not healed within.

Worse yet, merely getting married will not cure their problem with masturbation. Because masturbation has trained disordered impulses in them, the true pleasures of marriage--though far superior--may not appease their warped attachments. Where will they turn to find those pleasures within marriage? Often, they'll continue to struggle with masturbation, to the sorrow and distress of their spouse, and to the detriment of their marriage. A person who does not preserve his own purity when alone will have a difficult time remaining pure with another. If he lacks self-control when alone, he will be unable to properly give himself to his spouse when the time comes. You can not give what you do not control. No self-control equals no gift of self. To the extent that there is no gift of self, there is no love. If you want to be able to genuinely love your spouse, you must build self-mastery.
What a masquerade. Just say "Because the Bible says so", and be done with it.

I must admit that whoever you plagiarized is very skillful at talking and talking, and yet saying very little. It's drivel, upon closer examination.

Last edited by Truthiness : 12-14-2006 at 06:27 PM.
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Old 12-15-2006, 08:53 AM #48
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What a masquerade. Just say "Because the Bible says so", and be done with it.

Because while that is true, there is so much more to it than that!

I must admit that whoever you plagiarized is very skillful at talking and talking, and yet saying very little. It's drivel, upon closer examination.
And I must admit, the people who usually don't like to hear this stuff or chalk it off as mere drivel are usually the ones that need to hear it the most! They are often people who are trying to suppress their own conscience in order to continue living an immoral lifestyle. They search for loopholes to justify their behavior such as, "The Bible doesn't say it is wrong," "I think the faith is unreasonable," "I don't care for organized religion," "I won't obey the Church because Church leaders don't always live up to its teachings," "All truth is subjective," "Morality is a ploy made up by religious leaders to control the masses," or our newest one, "This is just plain drivel."

Hmmmm. Maybe people in this situation need to turn to Christ and allow themselves to be transformed. God's laws are not burdens. He is not a taskmaster who overwhelms us with rules so that we will blindly conform and live miserable lives to satisfy him. He wants to raise us up as his sons and daughters, training us in discipline so that we can become truly free to love. His laws exist because he loves us and wants us to share in that love. And his laws actually do make sense, upon closer examination, with how we were made both spiritually, physically, emotionally and psychologically.

Furthermore, my firm committment to sexual morality comes from within and from personal experience. The Bible does not need to tell me it is wrong because I have personally experienced the destructive effects of premarital sex in my own life! It, while at the time was gratifying, ultimately lead to anxiety, depresssion, a general mistrust of people, and overall unhappiness. And this is coming from a girl who was in a serious relationship for 5 1/2 years with a guy. Not a one night stand at all and a relationship that lasted longer than some marriages do. But despite all that, it was not ok. Now being married for 2 1/2 years I see the vast difference between sex within marriage and sex outside of it. One can never express true love, feel real peace or experience the awesome joys of sex until they are married!

Last edited by NicoleW : 12-15-2006 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 12-16-2006, 01:02 PM #49
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IMO with the masterbation (im not too fond of it) but if I can stroke my arm what is the difference between my arm and wang. Just the way it feels. You don't get bithced at for stroking your arm do yah? NOPE. So why should wang be bad?
Physical pleasure is a sin, all of it. Isn't Christianity fun?
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Old 12-16-2006, 01:13 PM #50
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Physical pleasure is a sin, all of it. Isn't Christianity fun?
LOL. That's the best ya can come up with?
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Old 12-17-2006, 05:28 AM #51
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Funny quote I heard somewhere...

If God didn't intend us to masterbate, he would have made our arms shorter.
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Old 12-17-2006, 09:31 PM #52
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So really... In this oh so holy book called the bible, they expect humans (lusting, sexual beings) to not have sex in anyway, including masturbation. I mean really, if "God" made us the way that we are, why would he deem you as unworthy or dirty for acting upon the feelings that he placed in you. I find it kind of stupid to be deemed weak, or dirty for something that is more "pure" in some Christians eyes than having sex outside of marriage.
Lets clarify something here:

God is never against anything bad, before He is first for something good.

God is for sex. He created it, and He gave us our desires for it. However, sex was created to be experienced only within a marriage relationship, for our pleasure and protection. Sex outside of marriage is not according to God's design.
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Old 12-18-2006, 12:55 PM #53
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sorry, i have to excuse myself from this nonsense and go masterbate



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Old 12-18-2006, 10:24 PM #54
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Ignorant enough to belive in God . Oh Hunter, don't get so butthurt when other people pull in their beliefs, you put yours out there, I put mine out there as well.
You aren't just putting your beliefs out there. You're trying to shut everyone down. It's just entertaining when you act so superior to me.
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Old 12-20-2006, 02:05 AM #55
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Jews got it right making their rabbi's marry before they can lead prayer...look at them now...no children are getting molested by rabbi's
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Old 12-20-2006, 03:15 AM #56
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And I must admit, the people who usually don't like to hear this stuff or chalk it off as mere drivel are usually the ones that need to hear it the most! They are often people who are trying to suppress their own conscience in order to continue living an immoral lifestyle.
The problem is that the bible is not cut and dry, it is incredibly open to interpretation so while you talk as if your interpretation is the only interpretation a different person, even a bible scholar, could interpret it differently and still say the bible supports them. Therefore, your defense that what the bible outlines as immoral is immoral is lacking in any definitive substance as an argument for a moral authority.

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Furthermore, my firm committment to sexual morality comes from within and from personal experience. The Bible does not need to tell me it is wrong because I have personally experienced the destructive effects of premarital sex in my own life! It, while at the time was gratifying, ultimately lead to anxiety, depresssion, a general mistrust of people, and overall unhappiness. And this is coming from a girl who was in a serious relationship for 5 1/2 years with a guy. Not a one night stand at all and a relationship that lasted longer than some marriages do. But despite all that, it was not ok. Now being married for 2 1/2 years I see the vast difference between sex within marriage and sex outside of it. One can never express true love, feel real peace or experience the awesome joys of sex until they are married!
That's funny because I know and am part of PLENTY of people who have gratifying sexual experiences outside of any relational commitment as well as plenty of people who are in long term relationships where sex is a big part of being intimate with each other and a way to express love in a mutually gratifying way. Sex in a relationship is healthy and normal. You'd have trouble finding a sexual therapist who disagrees with me.
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Old 12-20-2006, 10:11 AM #57
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The problem is that the bible is not cut and dry, it is incredibly open to interpretation so while you talk as if your interpretation is the only interpretation a different person, even a bible scholar, could interpret it differently and still say the bible supports them. Therefore, your defense that what the bible outlines as immoral is immoral is lacking in any definitive substance as an argument for a moral authority.

Anyone who says that the Bible is silent on premarital sex has not spent much time reading the Bible. The phrase premarital sex does not appear in the Bible, because Scripture uses the term fornication instead. This term is used in passages such as 1 Corinthians 6, where the apostle Paul says, "Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers . . . will inherit the kingdom of God. . . . The body is not meant for immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord is for the body. . . . Avoid immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the immoral person sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? For you have been purchased at a price. Therefore, glorify God in your body" (1 Cor. 6:9–10, 13, 18–20).

In 1 Thessalonians 4, Paul says, "For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from immorality; that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor. . . . For God has not called us for uncleanness, but in holiness. Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you" (1 Thess. 4:3–5, 7–8). Elsewhere, the Bible exhorts us, "But fornication and all impurity . . . must not even be named among you, as is fitting among saints" (Eph. 5:3).

I mean, I am not sure how anyone could interpret those passages otherwise and to date, I have not heard a Christian say that the Bible says premarital sex is ok. There really dosen't seem to be much confusion on the issue here. Whether you actually believe in the Bible is a whole other story but the bible is pretty explicit here on its teaching on premariatl sex.


That's funny because I know and am part of PLENTY of people who have gratifying sexual experiences outside of any relational commitment as well as plenty of people who are in long term relationships where sex is a big part of being intimate with each other and a way to express love in a mutually gratifying way. Sex in a relationship is healthy and normal.

And I also said that at the time, it was gratifying and I thought nothing of it. It wasn't until later in life when I actually met the guy I was to marry that I saw the damaging efffects and consequences of my actions. And it wasn't until I was actually married that I saw the difference between sex outside of marriage and sex within marriage. Again, many people, while they are involved in the relationship or are unmarried feel that sex is great, that its beneficial to their lives and relationships when it is really quite the contrary. Look at the stats on this because premarital sex does not lead to lasting and long term relationships. Consider the following facts about cohabitation (living together before marriage) and premarital sex: Most couples who live together never end up getting married, but those who do tie the knot are almost twice as likely to divorce as couples who do not live together before marriage. Overall, couples who cohabit before marriage have a divorce rate of about eighty percent, and non-virgin brides are sixty percent more likely to end up divorced than women who enter marriage as virgins. Couples who cohabited prior to marriage have greater marital conflict and poorer communication, and they made more frequent visits to marriage counselors. Women who cohabited before marriage are more than three times as likely to cheat on their husbands within marriage. The U.S. Justice Department found that women who cohabit are sixty-two times more likely to be assaulted by a live-in boyfriend than by a husband. They were also more than three times as likely to be depressed as married women, and the couples were less sexually satisfied than those who waited for marriage.

Again, premarital sex might seem like a good idea at the time, especially for the guy, but in the long run, it really hurts the person and future relationships rather than helps it. But alot of young people don't think about the future, I sure didn't. They live in the here and now where instant gratification is the rule of thumb and if it feels good, do it is the mantra.


You'd have trouble finding a sexual therapist who disagrees with me.
I have a B.A. in clinical psychology and know far too well what a sham "sex therapists" are. They are a joke and how they counsel is really just their own subjective opinions of things. I took 2 graduate courses from a self-proclaimed "sex therapist" and boy can I tell you, what a way to waste a dollar. They just pretty much tell the patient whatever they want to hear. Its such a scam and I wouldn't take anything they say with much credibility. I find that alot of these "therapists" have a hidden agenda all their own and subtly promote it in their therapy sessions.

Last edited by NicoleW : 12-20-2006 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 12-20-2006, 12:19 PM #58
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if it makes you feel better, only one i can think of is the Catholics with there priests, and its not part of their religion that the priests cant get married. First of all hte only restriction is marriage, second of all, the original priests could get married, just some retard of a pope made a decree that after that no priest could get married. Its not anything indoctrinated in the Bible, and it is in only of one religion that comes to mind
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Old 12-20-2006, 01:33 PM #59
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if it makes you feel better, only one i can think of is the Catholics with there priests, and its not part of their religion that the priests cant get married. First of all hte only restriction is marriage, second of all, the original priests could get married, just some retard of a pope made a decree that after that no priest could get married. Its not anything indoctrinated in the Bible, and it is in only of one religion that comes to mind
Priestly celibacy is a discipline of the Catholic faith and not a doctrine or dogma. Disciplines are authoritative and binding in conscience for as long as the Magisterium affirms them but can be changed or modified if deemed necessary. And you would be surprised to know that celibacy is not the rule for all Catholic priests. In fact, for Eastern Rite Catholics, married priests are the norm, just as they are for Orthodox and Oriental Christians. Again, as these variations and exceptions indicate, priestly celibacy is not an unchangeable dogma but a disciplinary rule.

The tradition in the Western or Latin-Rite Church has been for priests as well as bishops to take vows of celibacy, a rule that has been firmly in place since the early Middle Ages. Even today, though, exceptions are made. For example, there are married Latin-Rite priests who are converts from Lutheranism and Episcopalianism.

The discipline of priestly celibacy can be found in the bible though and the vocation of celibacy is explicitly advocated—as well as practiced—by both Jesus and Paul. In 1 Corinthians 7:8-9, Paul actually endorses celibacy for those capable of it: "To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I am. But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion" Paul even goes on to make a case for preferring celibacy to marriage: "Are you free from a wife? Do not seek marriage. . . those who marry will have worldly troubles, and I would spare you that. . . . The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided. And the unmarried woman or girl is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to be holy in body and spirit; but the married woman is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please her husband" (7:27-34).

Paul’s conclusion: He who marries "does well; and he who refrains from marriage will do better" (7:38).

And Jesus’ teaching on the value of celibacy "for the sake of the kingdom" should also be noted in Matt. 19:11–12 when he says, "Not all can accept this word, but only those to whom it is granted. Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of God. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it"

Hope that helps where Catholics get this discipline from and that it is not merely some invention by "some retard of a pope". And thanks for that comment as well. As a practicing Catholic, I really appreciate it
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Old 12-20-2006, 01:50 PM #60
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And I must admit, the people who usually don't like to hear this stuff or chalk it off as mere drivel are usually the ones that need to hear it the most! They are often people who are trying to suppress their own conscience in order to continue living an immoral lifestyle. They search for loopholes to justify their behavior such as, "The Bible doesn't say it is wrong," "I think the faith is unreasonable," "I don't care for organized religion," "I won't obey the Church because Church leaders don't always live up to its teachings," "All truth is subjective," "Morality is a ploy made up by religious leaders to control the masses," or our newest one, "This is just plain drivel."

Hmmmm. Maybe people in this situation need to turn to Christ and allow themselves to be transformed. God's laws are not burdens. He is not a taskmaster who overwhelms us with rules so that we will blindly conform and live miserable lives to satisfy him. He wants to raise us up as his sons and daughters, training us in discipline so that we can become truly free to love. His laws exist because he loves us and wants us to share in that love. And his laws actually do make sense, upon closer examination, with how we were made both spiritually, physically, emotionally and psychologically.

Furthermore, my firm committment to sexual morality comes from within and from personal experience. The Bible does not need to tell me it is wrong because I have personally experienced the destructive effects of premarital sex in my own life! It, while at the time was gratifying, ultimately lead to anxiety, depresssion, a general mistrust of people, and overall unhappiness. And this is coming from a girl who was in a serious relationship for 5 1/2 years with a guy. Not a one night stand at all and a relationship that lasted longer than some marriages do. But despite all that, it was not ok. Now being married for 2 1/2 years I see the vast difference between sex within marriage and sex outside of it. One can never express true love, feel real peace or experience the awesome joys of sex until they are married!

Listen, I have different ideas of morality. I don't do things that harm other people because I have a conscience. That's all I was saying. We're not going to get anywhere. All you're doing is posting over and over again "because the bible says so" when I think the bible is a load of crap. Therefore, we are never going to get anywhere. So, drop it.
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Old 12-20-2006, 02:22 PM #61
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I think believing in a diety is a sin against the human race and human development because it is ignorant.

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Say that to the humans that created your God and the humans that created your religion and the humans that created all religion and all Gods for a sense of security and a sense of morals when there were no other guidelines.
And yet you yourself are ignorant. You do not know as fact that "humans created your god" let alone the motivation behind creating any religion which you seem to believe is "for a sense of security and a sense of morals", and yet you not only close yourself to the option that you may be wrong (which is ignorant) but you speak in a disrespectful manner against something you likely have very little understanding of (also, ignorant).

If you consider ignorance a sin against the human race then you would be well served to address your own ignorance which by all appearances is in no short supply. Fix yourself before you attempt to fix others.


Back to the original question from another perspective, in Buddhist traditions sex itself isn't necessarily prohibited although it may as well be. One of the principle tenets of Buddhism is that desire is the root cause of suffering and we should rid ourselves of desire to be free from suffering. Clearly, as sex promotes and encourages desire, it is something a devout Buddhist would suggest avoiding. This doesn't apparently apply to trantric sects (lol, pun) of Buddhism, but I don't rightfully know anything about them.
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