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Old 12-10-2006, 09:29 PM #1
maxMONSTER
 
 
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calvinism supported in the bible

ok so theres been debate in the christian world over calvinism or arminianism
i think this basically proves that calvinism is the right one

in ephesians 1:3-13 it says
"Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit"

what do you think? im my opinion i think its pretty straightforward and tells us that we were all predestined to be christians
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:40 PM #2
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You need to remember that you can't prove anything with the Bible, unless you're trying to prove that the Bible says something. If you're trying to convince someone that doesn't believe the Bible is the infallible word of God that something the Bible says is true, you will fail.
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:50 PM #3
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I haven't read a lot about calvinism, but what I have read, I don't agree with. Complete predestination, in my opinion, completely invalidates religion. Why bother living well, worshiping, and being a good person if it's all predestined before you're even born? Why try and follow God when he has already decided if you will be in Heaven or Hell? It makes religion pointless. I believe that we have free will, but that God knows our choices and decisions. God knows what we will choose, but we have the freedom to make those choices ourselves.

And unless I've misunderstood what calvinism is, they believe in complete predestination. At least, that's what a few calvinists have told me they believe, and I don't agree with them. (And yes, I'm aware there are about 4 more points to their belief system.)
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Old 12-11-2006, 12:23 AM #4
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yeah well my friend is calvinist and like yeah what can i say i was influenced like at first it totally made me think what ur thinking but i dunno if the bible says it... but heres what i really think on calvinism like God knows all the choices that will be presented to you in life and whatever choice you choose God will know from there one what will happen
you get what im saying? i dunno all this calvinistic stuff and arminian stuff is complicated
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:11 AM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akatch79 View Post
You need to remember that you can't prove anything with the Bible, unless you're trying to prove that the Bible says something.
That's EXACTLY what he's trying to do.



Anyways, I consider myself a Calvinist. The whole predestination vs free will thing becomes kinda insignificant when you consider that God is independant of time. He can't predict anything because there's no future to Him.
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:31 AM #6
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That's EXACTLY what he's trying to do.



Anyways, I consider myself a Calvinist. The whole predestination vs free will thing becomes kinda insignificant when you consider that God is independant of time. He can't predict anything because there's no future to Him.
If there is no time, why did he rest on the seventh day of creation?
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Old 12-11-2006, 08:58 AM #7
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well he rested on our seventh day time doesnt apply to God but when he rested it the was seventh day where we were
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:09 AM #8
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I cant believe in Calvinism. It would be unreasonable for a God to create a world for his sons and daughters only to select a few to rejoin him from the beginning of time, ban the others from heaven, and keep free will from his servants.
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:25 AM #9
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Biblically speaking, the predestination thing has gotten a bad rep. People have taken it too far. There's verses that seem to support that God only choses certain people, but then you find others that say it isn't the case. 2 Peter 3:9 says he doesn't want anyone to persish but everyone to come to repentance. We are all predestined to have access to heaven, but our free will determines if this will happen or not. Its simple, but people want to make it so complicated. Blah. Give me simple.
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Old 12-11-2006, 10:48 AM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razzy View Post
I cant believe in Calvinism. It would be unreasonable for a God to create a world for his sons and daughters only to select a few to rejoin him from the beginning of time, ban the others from heaven, and keep free will from his servants.
I agree. I don't think that God limits his salvation to a select few. It's open to anyone, and you have the choice to accept it or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggressive Bill View Post
2 Peter 3:9 says he doesn't want anyone to persish but everyone to come to repentance. We are all predestined to have access to heaven, but our free will determines if this will happen or not.
That's exactly what I believe. And I think the bible supports this more than calvinism, but that's just my interpretation of it.
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Old 12-16-2006, 09:40 AM #11
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Predestination
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Old 12-17-2006, 08:40 PM #12
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oop guys sorry i just recently got a new view on this God himself is calvinist cuz he already knows who is going to be christian or not however we humans are armanian we do not know what will happen a few years down the line we use our free will to determine what will happen and what will not so... basically God = calvinist, humans = armanian
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Old 12-17-2006, 08:55 PM #13
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Armenianism is supported in the Bible. different perspective and different interpretations.
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Old 12-17-2006, 09:01 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxMONSTER View Post
oop guys sorry i just recently got a new view on this God himself is calvinist cuz he already knows who is going to be christian or not however we humans are armanian we do not know what will happen a few years down the line we use our free will to determine what will happen and what will not so... basically God = calvinist, humans = armanian
That's actually a pretty good way to look at it. It's more or less what I believe in.
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Old 12-17-2006, 10:20 PM #15
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If there is no time, why did he rest on the seventh day of creation?
Man wrote the Bible.
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Old 12-17-2006, 11:28 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by graysonp View Post
I believe that we have free will, but that God knows our choices and decisions. God knows what we will choose, but we have the freedom to make those choices ourselves.
So to summarize:
We can completely choose our own paths, but God knows what paths we are going to take before we take them.

If He created us, even if He is outside the realm of time, why would He create us knowing full well that we would sin? Take Hitler for example. Completely extreme example, I know, but God knew what he was going to do before he did it because God knows everything. God created Hitler. Yes Hitler had "free choice," but this "free choice" is equal to the amount of free choice that a character in a movie has. Yes the choices in the movie are there, but the plot has been already laid out and must be strictly adhered to.
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