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Old 12-17-2006, 03:15 PM #1
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Why didnt God make us perfect? Why did God give us freewill?

According to Christianity, God created man in "his" image; Is God not perfect? Even more so, if God wanted to create a perfect race, then why did God give us freewill, knowing that we will abuse it, and become the sinners we all are today? Didn't God know that giving us freewill was a mistake? If God did, then why didn't "he" just create us perfect in the first place?

I know these questions have no answers, but lets see what is your logic.
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Old 12-17-2006, 03:24 PM #2
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Originally Posted by XOne View Post
According to Christianity, God created man in "his" image; Is God not perfect? Even more so, if God wanted to create a perfect race, then why did God give us freewill, knowing that we will abuse it, and become the sinners we all are today? Didn't God know that giving us freewill was a mistake? If God did, then why didn't "he" just create us perfect in the first place?

I know these questions have no answers, but lets see what is your logic.
we were created perfect. we chose not to be by disobedience and rebellion. As to the reason why he gave us that freewill, the answer goes back to my initial answer. He gave us a freewill. God created us, at least in art to have fellowship, and for His creation to have relationship with Him and to Love Him. It would not be love, if he created us as some of the angels that were created to love Him. we choose to love Him (or not).
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Old 12-17-2006, 03:26 PM #3
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we were created perfect. we chose not to be by disobedience and rebellion. As to the reason why he gave us that freewill, the answer goes back to my initial answer. He gave us a freewill. God created us, at least in art to have fellowship, and for His creation to have relationship with Him and to Love Him. It would not be love, if he created us as some of the angels that were created to love Him. we choose to love Him (or not).
So, we were created perfect, yet we are disobedient and rebellious? Wouldn't God know, by giving us freewill, that we would be disobedient and rebellious?
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Old 12-17-2006, 03:33 PM #4
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So, we were created perfect, yet we are disobedient and rebellious? Wouldn't God know, by giving us freewill, that we would be disobedient and rebellious?
When He created Adam and Eve, yes, He knew that, as I mentioned in other posts in this forum. the point is that was a necessary part of freewill. There can not be love if there is no choice to love. it is simply a known state of being. love is more of a choice than an emotion, contrary to popular understandings. As a human, Love is something you do, not something you "be". if we were created to only have love for God, that wouldn't be love. The power of Love is greatly underestimated. I believe one of the main reasons is that we lack a way to actually measure and quantify it. Just like faith, I believe the go hand in hand. very powerful forces.
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Old 12-17-2006, 03:37 PM #5
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Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
There can not be love if there is no choice to love.
*smacks head*

What happens if our only choice was to love God? What happens if we had no freewill? Wouldn't we be perfect?

You start getting all mushy on me, giving your personal definition of love, but who are you to define anything? Love is ambiguous.
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Old 12-17-2006, 03:59 PM #6
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*smacks head*

What happens if our only choice was to love God?
already answered that - I do not believe that is is possible to love unless there is a choice to love or not.
Quote:
... What happens if we had no freewill? Wouldn't we be perfect?
what if an orange was only a 2 dimensional plane. (we could play what if's all day, sorry, won't go there)
Quote:
...You start getting all mushy on me, giving your personal definition of love, but who are you to define anything? Love is ambiguous.
mushy? nope, just giving my understanding and opinion of the answers to the questions that were given. you can choose to relate that information at a personal level with another person or wit God or not. Preconceived ideas of what is love is up to you to define.
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Old 12-17-2006, 04:05 PM #7
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what if an orange was only a 2 dimensional plane. (we could play what if's all day, sorry, won't go there)
.... You have got to be kidding me.
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Old 12-17-2006, 04:22 PM #8
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Old 12-17-2006, 04:31 PM #9
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.... You have got to be kidding me.
nope. not kidding. One of the things that mad another forum that many of us visited and participated was that everyone pretty much agreed that what if's are not any kind of valid discussion point except for entertainment purposes. I am just carrying that paradigm. I may be the only one, but I still feel that it carries little or no weight. So to your question. I can't say what if we had no free will. the reason is that we have free will and there is no basis to found any kind of guestimate except to compare to other creations that don't have freewill, and then we would probably need to concur on what those things are, in order to draw any kind of conclusion, whether or not we agreed.
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Old 12-17-2006, 05:03 PM #10
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Is freewill imperfect?

Last edited by XOne : 12-17-2006 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 12-17-2006, 05:05 PM #11
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Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
nope. not kidding. One of the things that mad another forum that many of us visited and participated was that everyone pretty much agreed that what if's are not any kind of valid discussion point except for entertainment purposes. I am just carrying that paradigm. I may be the only one, but I still feel that it carries little or no weight. So to your question. I can't say what if we had no free will. the reason is that we have free will and there is no basis to found any kind of guestimate except to compare to other creations that don't have freewill, and then we would probably need to concur on what those things are, in order to draw any kind of conclusion, whether or not we agreed.
The question is not what if we didn't have free will, the question is why do we have free will.
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Old 12-17-2006, 05:06 PM #12
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The question is not what if we didn't have free will, the question is why do we have free will.
Exactly.
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Old 12-17-2006, 05:11 PM #13
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The question is not what if we didn't have free will, the question is why do we have free will.
nope - his question was very specific and I quoted it
Quote:
... What happens if we had no freewill? Wouldn't we be perfect?
I already gave my answer to his initial question as to why.

and no, freewill is not polar opposite to perfection, though depends on what definition of perfection you are using.
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Old 12-17-2006, 05:12 PM #14
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nope - his question was very specific and I quoted it


I already gave my answer to his initial question as to why.

and no, freewill is not polar opposite to perfection, though depends on what definition of perfection you are using.
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Originally Posted by XOne View Post
According to Christianity, God created man in "his" image; Is God not perfect? Even more so, if God wanted to create a perfect race, then why did God give us freewill, knowing that we will abuse it, and become the sinners we all are today? Didn't God know that giving us freewill was a mistake? If God did, then why didn't "he" just create us perfect in the first place?

I know these questions have no answers, but lets see what is your logic.
In the most simple form possible, what I asked was "Why do we have freewill?"; It is also in the title.

Quote that.

Last edited by XOne : 12-17-2006 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 12-17-2006, 05:14 PM #15
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In the most simple way possible, what I asked was "Why do we have freewill?"

Quote that.
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Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
we were created perfect. we chose not to be by disobedience and rebellion. As to the reason why he gave us that freewill, the answer goes back to my initial answer. He gave us a freewill. God created us, at least in art to have fellowship, and for His creation to have relationship with Him and to Love Him. It would not be love, if he created us as some of the angels that were created to love Him. we choose to love Him (or not).
already did
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Old 12-17-2006, 05:14 PM #16
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Because god didnt create us. Anything Christians/humans cant explain something, its because of god.
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Old 12-17-2006, 05:15 PM #17
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already did
Your logic holds no water considering the idea of love is ambiguous.
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Old 12-17-2006, 05:16 PM #18
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Your logic holds no water considering the idea of love is ambiguous.
in your opinion and construct of love, not mine.
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Old 12-17-2006, 05:18 PM #19
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Old 12-17-2006, 05:18 PM #20
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in your opinion and construct of love, not mine.
Thats funny, I never gave my opinion or construct of love; I am simply saying that love is ambiguous, so you cant use it to reinforce your logic.
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Old 12-17-2006, 05:20 PM #21
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Thats funny, I never gave my opinion or construct of love; I am simply saying that love is ambiguous, so you cant use it to reinforce your logic.
yes you did...
Quote:
the idea of love is ambiguous
you believe love is an idea and that it is ambiguous. I do not.
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