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Old 12-16-2006, 09:43 AM #43
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Originally Posted by x420psykoticx View Post
The Devil was originally an Angel, but was jealous of God and tried to overthrow God. The Devil failed and is considered a "fallen angel".
the truth.
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Old 12-16-2006, 10:46 AM #44
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Originally Posted by pyrotechnics View Post
... paradise, also known as heaven....
This is a common misunderstanding, assuming this reference is about the Biblical reference to the thief on the cross that went with Jesus.

While outside of some Biblical reference, we understand the definition of paradise to be a good place. In fact, many people believe that when Jesus mentioned to the thief on the cross that he would be with Him in paradise, that is actually a place in hell. Paradise (not heaven/the kingdom of heaven) is also referred to as "Abraham's bosom" (parable of the rich man and Lazarus the beggar) in the New testament and used interchangeable in many ancient Jewish traditions.

The (understood) connotation (for them at the time) though, is that Abraham's Bosom was a temporary place in hell, and that many prophets and believers were there (prior to Christ fulfilling the Levitical Law). and the scripture then follows Jesus' resurrection with a description of them leaving paradise and walking and being seen on the earth before He *and the ones that were in Paradise) ascended to Heaven (to submit Himself to God as that sacrifice having paid the atonement necessary for mankind).

That ascension, not to be confused with the one that was witnessed by many after he came back and was seen with His disciples for over a month eating meals and being with them.

But yes, the general understanding is that Hell was made for the fallen angels, and mankind's disobedience and rebellion that we choose, thus sending ourselves, is correct.

God is uncreated. He is. that's it, there is no creator of God, just alwasy was and always will be. very difficult to comprrehend by some, but there is no neeed to make it harder to understand than it really is. God said (and Jesus reiterated), "I am". based on the Hebrew verb infinitive "to be" has a tense and understanding that it is eternal past and eternal future.
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Old 12-16-2006, 01:21 PM #45
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is you point that heaven is not mans paradise?
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Old 12-16-2006, 02:26 PM #46
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is you point that heaven is not mans paradise?
nope. my point is that perception of words and their definition has a lot to do with what we want to be in reality. People speak of paradise as a good place, a garden of eden, heaven, etc. This world view definition is correct and I don't doubt it at all, and use it as such in my daily life.

However, in reference to the Bible, the definition can be different than what we think, because the world view definition is all most people understand or comprehend. There are places that the Hebrew that directly mean a "park" or garden. that does not take away from or diminish the Abraham's Bosom concept from ancient Hebrew tradition also mentioned in the Bible.

What it does do is lead us to an understanding, that "hell" may not simply be a lake of fire and torment in it's entirety. and again, that is not to say that it wasn't created for the fallen ones. And it does not mean that the disobedient will not go their either.

I guess I am saying that when we think of heaven and hell, we have preconceived ideas of what must be. "when we've been there 10,000 years..." so the song goes; it sounds good, especially when we talk about "streets of gold". but the theology is not Biblical, in my opinion. God is outside of time/space and not subject to His creation. years as a linear, or even threaded or a planer quantification is non-existent with God. time doesn't stop, or start, or begin or end there.
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Old 12-16-2006, 02:32 PM #47
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Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post

I guess I am saying that when we think of heaven and hell, we have preconceived ideas of what must be. "when we've been there 10,000 years..." so the song goes; it sounds good, especially when we talk about "streets of gold". but the theology is not Biblical, in my opinion. God is outside of time/space and not subject to His creation. years as a linear, or even threaded or a planer quantification is non-existent with God. time doesn't stop, or start, or begin or end there.
How is it not theology? It's in Revelation...
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Old 12-16-2006, 10:24 PM #48
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It really helps when you know the Christian God is a bunch of BS; the angle is a lot easier to understand.
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I will not tolerate people purposely starting trouble. If you are athiest and you see a thread made by Christians to discuss Christian things, don't go into that thread starting trouble or telling them how wrong they are, and visa versa. I have no problem with you debating the differences, or even who is "right" or "wrong", but I will not have people hijacking people's threads or trolling. If you want to debate, make your own thread for it or find an existing debate thread.
You can find it here: http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1888963
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Old 12-16-2006, 10:29 PM #49
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Originally Posted by fuhrer325 View Post
How is it not theology? It's in Revelation...
please cite the verse(s) that mentions a quantification of a time line in heaven (that have nothing to do with earth or Hell) in the apocalypse (book of Revelation).
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