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Old 12-10-2006, 10:46 PM #1
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Exclamation Question:

This is a question for all of you that don't believe in god/higher power anymore.

I was just wondering why you stopped believing, or why you still believe.

Me, personally I can't see how there can be a god that lets such terrible things go on in the world.
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:02 PM #2
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I believe there is a god, I can't explain why, I just feel like there is. Maybe it's because I was raised Christian, I dunno. I'm definitely not a Christian anymore though, I think it (and other religions) are just a form societal control, with ridiculous rules.
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:09 PM #3
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I never consider myself to really have believed in god because for the times I did I think I was too young and outwardly influenced to make such an opinion for myself.

It was nothing in particular- just that there's no reason to believe that god exists.
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:37 PM #4
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I'm a little different in that I was actually raised for the first 14 or so years of my life as a Christian. Starting when I was about 12, I went to church 2-3 times a week, read my bible, and prayed daily, but never really felt like anybody was listening. At first, I thought this was because I had some sort of spiritual deficit, that there was something wrong with me. I never felt the "moving of the spirit" like everyone around me claimed to in prayer services, etc. Also, I had questions that my parents/grandparents just couldn't answer, like how do we know that we Christians are the one true faith? or why, if God loves me, will he send me to Hell if I screw up? Then I started to notice the hypocritical lifestyles most of the other people in my church and my parents were living. Later, as I went to other churches/denominations, I noticed this same trend. This really turned me off to religion, but I still believed fervently in God, although I still hadn't really experienced Him in any way. One day, I don't remember exactly when but I was around 18-19, I began to ask myself why I believed in God in the first place; what real evidence did I have that He existed? I had never really felt anything when praying or reading my bible, I mainly did it because it felt comforting to think that as long as I was a good Christian, this benevolent life-spirit-thing would watch out for me. I struggled with this for weeks, because although I really knew that I had given up on the whole higher-power concept, it was a difficult thing to say, that for years I had believed in something that probably only existed in my mind because I wanted it to. Eventually, however, I got used to the idea, decided that the question of whether or not God exists is really irrelevant, and, most importantly, am now satisfied after years of inner turmoil.
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:41 PM #5
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Originally Posted by DrSlaughter View Post
Me, personally I can't see how there can be a god that lets such terrible things go on in the world.
Why's that? God does not necessarily have to like us, care about us, or be a nice god in order to exist. Maybe god is an ******* and starves people to death in Africa so he can feel good about himself, it's no less likely than god existing to love us.
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:50 PM #6
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:30 PM #7
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this is an edit b-c i just came back and read your thing, and it addresses non believers sorry i dont apply for that if you want me to delete i will dont want a ban though thankyou and sorry again

Well in my very own opinion and to let you know of my belief i am a christian, on to your topic now, God doesnt necessarily let these things happen, he lets us make choices but he already knows the outcome of that decision, and this life is a test, and the answer to all questions in the christian belief is faith in God knowing and believing with every bit of your will that God is creator of all and he sent his only son to come to earth, live a perfect christian life and pay the ultimate sacrifice and die for everyone humans sins, be burried, three days later rise again, ascend into heaven and sit at the right hand of God, so in conclusion God may "let these things happen" because it would be too easy for him just to come down and sort things out then there would be no reason for faith, do you understand what im trying to say im not really good with words or gettin my point across but what would people have to believe in if they could just see him, You have to have faith, pm with any further questions, and im glad your curious that means you atleast have some sort of care
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:31 PM #8
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:51 PM #9
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Originally Posted by elTwitcho View Post
Why's that? God does not necessarily have to like us, care about us, or be a nice god in order to exist. Maybe god is an ******* and starves people to death in Africa so he can feel good about himself, it's no less likely than god existing to love us.
If this were true, he wouldn't really be a god would he?

I don't believe in a deity because I have always had a propensity for rationalism. If I address a problem, I address it rationally. If I don't understand something, I utilize logic until an acceptable explanation has been reached. Similarly, if I consider the meaning of life, cosmology, truth, nature's phenomena, origin of life, etc...(All that existential ****), my rationale points toward a purely physical life, which is a result of events and occurrences that are unrelated and ultimately irrelevant to "God". Possibly said deity is unrelated and irrelevant to my life and the universe. In this case my rationale would still lead me to the same conclusions, despite the fact that said deity is present. But because he does not present himself (In my opinion), I will maintain an atheistic standpoint. Essentially, my rationale takes precedence over my emotions and feelings.
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:57 PM #10
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If this were true, he wouldn't really be a god would he?
I dunno, the Greek's believed in gods who were petty and prone to excess, essentially their gods were like irresponsible frat boys with supernatural powers. The Christian god is described in the bible as being a "jealous" god which is another negative human characteristic, I don't see why a god needs to be a "good" being in order to be believable (if you were to think it was believable at all)
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Old 12-11-2006, 08:01 PM #11
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Originally Posted by elTwitcho View Post
Why's that? God does not necessarily have to like us, care about us, or be a nice god in order to exist. Maybe god is an ******* and starves people to death in Africa so he can feel good about himself, it's no less likely than god existing to love us.
Yeah, you can't know for sure what a God's motives are.

A higher being doesn't have to answer to anyone, seeing as they're in charge of existence itself.
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Old 12-11-2006, 08:06 PM #12
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Originally Posted by elTwitcho View Post
I dunno, the Greek's believed in gods who were petty and prone to excess, essentially their gods were like irresponsible frat boys with supernatural powers. The Christian god is described in the bible as being a "jealous" god which is another negative human characteristic, I don't see why a god needs to be a "good" being in order to be believable (if you were to think it was believable at all)
My point was more along the lines of characterizing "god". If I can characterize god with human traits, than that displays some level of equality between humans and god. My idea of god, if I were to really have one, would be one that transcends any form of human nature. This means that god is not good, god is not nice, god is not mean, god is not bad, god is not humble, god is not vengeful, etc... Said god is untainted by emotion, love, fear, camaraderie, fellowship, or even thoughts. If God thinks, that means he's considering two viable options. If he didn't already know the answer he wouldn't be god. God would be everything, but god would be nothing. He is, he is not. Essentially he's a large paradox that is incomprehensible by man. This is exactly the fact why I don't believe in him.
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Old 12-11-2006, 08:14 PM #13
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Because belief in God is meaningless, irrational, and only creates divisions in society. The God of the Bible was created by humans and can be destroyed by humans, just as humans have destroyed Zeus, Thor, Ra, and thousands of other deities.
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Old 12-11-2006, 08:18 PM #14
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Because belief in God is meaningless, irrational, and only creates divisions in society. The God of the Bible was created by humans and can be destroyed by humans, just as humans have destroyed Zeus, Thor, Ra, and thousands of other deities.

Meaning and rationale are subjective. What's meaningless and irrational to you could be deeply purposeful and rational to someone else. That said, what makes you so sure that your assessment of meaning and rationality is more valid than someone else's?
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Old 12-11-2006, 08:18 PM #15
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I never believed.

I hate when people say "I don't believe because <bad thing> happens".. Thats a really crappy reason.
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Old 12-11-2006, 08:39 PM #16
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I never strongly believed in a God, but I went through a period of what I'd call "theistic agnosticism." I acknowledged that there were mysteries in the universe and said "God might be the answer." But, with age, I've gained maturity and education, and God is now well outside the realm of what I'm willing to believe.

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Old 12-11-2006, 08:51 PM #17
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I never strongly believed in a God, but I went through a period of what I'd call "theistic agnosticism." I acknowledged that there were mysteries in the universe and said "God might be the answer." But, with age, I've gained maturity and education, and God is now well outside the realm of what I'm willing to believe.

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I'm going through that "theistic agnosticism" period.

But I actually like believing in God. Whether I follow a religion or not, it's a crutch. At the most basic level, it's comforting to think that no matter what happens, something will care.

Even if it's all in my head, it's nice to believe that. The chances of one religion being right are just as likely as God existing, so I really have no fear of being right or wrong.
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:23 PM #18
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Originally Posted by DrSlaughter View Post
This is a question for all of you that don't believe in god/higher power anymore.

I was just wondering why you stopped believing, or why you still believe.

Me, personally I can't see how there can be a god that lets such terrible things go on in the world.
As for whgy u chose to go atheist, i have a contradicting point to make, ur statement that god wouldnt let terrible things happen to us if he really loved us. But look at the bigger picture on things, we might have to go through suffering now but it will be better in the future.

Ex.- Lets say we are bears. Satan is the hunter(hes hunting for us) and god is a hiker. the hunter(satan) sets a trap. The bear (us) get trapped in it. the hiker (god) comes along and sees that the bear needs help. he tries to help the bear by pulling on the trap. but while he is pulling on it, it causes the bear more pain. the bear starts to rebel and attack the hiker when the hiker was just trying to help. eventually the hiker comes and trankulizes the bear. he gets the bear out of the trap and the bear goes on with its life.

my point in saying this is that ometimes god has a bigger picture for us that we cant see. all we can do is rely on god and he will pull us through. thats where faith kicks in. if the bear had faith in the hiker, he would of been without pain and suffering long before.

this might not of changed your opinoin watsoever, i just hoped it made u think instead of shutting out god.
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:39 PM #19
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My point was more along the lines of characterizing "god". If I can characterize god with human traits, than that displays some level of equality between humans and god. My idea of god, if I were to really have one, would be one that transcends any form of human nature. This means that god is not good, god is not nice, god is not mean, god is not bad, god is not humble, god is not vengeful, etc... Said god is untainted by emotion, love, fear, camaraderie, fellowship, or even thoughts. If God thinks, that means he's considering two viable options. If he didn't already know the answer he wouldn't be god. God would be everything, but god would be nothing. He is, he is not. Essentially he's a large paradox that is incomprehensible by man. This is exactly the fact why I don't believe in him.
there is some mixed information here. malevolencey or benevolencey doesn't dictate a god. some of the charactaristics mentioned have to do with what monotheists refer to as God, but a polytheist of Hellanism would call and did call the monotheistic Christians; atheists. why? because they didn't believe in all the gods.

their definition of a god included emporers and pharaohs, and great men, otherwise called "heros" (not the same definition we use today).

as to the subject...
Quote:
I was just wondering why you stopped believing, or why you still believe.
I am not a Christian for the same reasons I became one. I too went through a lot of doubts and challenges about what God is, I remained a Christian in belief and practice through that, and now am stronger through and because of it. My lifestyle is now of Christian study and devotion (especially Biblical Archaeology and ancient languages), not just to Christianity, but other religions and beliefs as well. My continued studies have lead me to believe stronger in monotheism and Christianity. I try to remain unbiased and open minded, but the bottom line is that it all seems to lead me back to Christ and Him crucified as a gift and sacrifice to fulfill the levitical law for atonement of sin, the nature that what came from the "fall" of Adam (and Eve).
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:44 PM #20
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there is some mixed information here. malevolencey or benevolencey doesn't dictate a god. some of the charactaristics mentioned have to do with what monotheists refer to as God, but a polytheist of Hellanism would call and did call the monotheistic Christians; atheists. why? because they didn't believe in all the gods.

their definition of a god included emporers and pharaohs, and great men, otherwise called "heros" (not the same definition we use today).

as to the subject...
I am not a Christian for the same reasons I became one. I too went through a lot of doubts and challenges about what God is, I remained a Christian in belief and practice through that, and now am stronger through and because of it. My lifestyle is now of Christian study and devotion (especially Biblical Archaeology and ancient languages), not just to Christianity, but other religions and beliefs as well. My continued studies have lead me to believe stronger in monotheism and Christianity. I try to remain unbiased and open minded, but the bottom line is that it all seems to lead me back to Christ and Him crucified as a gift and sacrifice to fulfill the levitical law for atonement of sin, the nature that what came from the "fall" of Adam (and Eve).
i was goin to say somthing like that but i couldnt put it into words
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:51 PM #21
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My point was more along the lines of characterizing "god". If I can characterize god with human traits, than that displays some level of equality between humans and god. My idea of god, if I were to really have one, would be one that transcends any form of human nature. This means that god is not good, god is not nice, god is not mean, god is not bad, god is not humble, god is not vengeful, etc... Said god is untainted by emotion, love, fear, camaraderie, fellowship, or even thoughts. If God thinks, that means he's considering two viable options. If he didn't already know the answer he wouldn't be god. God would be everything, but god would be nothing. He is, he is not. Essentially he's a large paradox that is incomprehensible by man. This is exactly the fact why I don't believe in him.
I don't exactly follow. The personification of God is due to human inadequacies. If I see something new, and I want to describe it to you how do I do it? I describe it in terms you would be most likely to understand. It doesn't mean what I saw doesn't "transcends any form of human nature" it simply means that I have reduced God to describable terms.
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