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Old 12-10-2006, 01:54 AM #22
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Then ask question do not troll. You are on the verge of a vaction from PbN so if you want to know more about Taoism then ask questions. If not then get out of this thread as your trolling is not wanted in here.

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i am not trolling he freaked out and started naming faults at my religion he said lets talk taoism not lets only let me answer our questions and we are talking about it. i am giving my opinion which is not a bannable thread and im not leaving this thread either
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Old 12-10-2006, 01:56 AM #23
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He asked if anyone else was taoist...not lets debate Taoism

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Originally Posted by TheMahone2491 View Post
i consider it a dangerous religion because its followers beleive once you die its over and you sort of live for the moment or the "tao"
That is trolling. If you choice to continue then you will be banned.

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Old 12-10-2006, 02:06 AM #24
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He asked if anyone else was taoist...not lets debate Taoism



That is trolling. If you choice to continue then you will be banned.

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that was my opinion and he didnt ask who was taoist he started describing and i expressed my thoughts
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Old 12-10-2006, 11:18 AM #25
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Think of it this way: our goal is to achieve humility, modesty, and compassion to maintain our chi and keep in balance with tao.

tai chi and acupuncture are both methods used to maintain chi, btw
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Old 12-10-2006, 07:45 PM #26
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Originally Posted by TheMahone2491 View Post
because people would just live there lives and some would feel no need to live a good life
You need to read the Tao Te Ching before you start bashing people's religion because you're making yourself look like an idiot. Taoism, by my understanding, is built in many ways around the idea of living a good life. The Tao Te Ching, as near as I can tell, was written as a handbook to ruling a country (largely through inaction, through letting things fall into their natural order). Someone with a better understanding than me can explain this better, I'm sure, but just know that you're wrong. And it has little relation at all to "living for the moment," the moment is not the Tao in the same way that the Tao that can be written is not the Tao. It may be an expression of the Tao, but it most certainly is not the Tao.

In addition, your standard of measure is flawed to begin with as it hold the religion to a measure (a seemingly Judeo-Christian measure) that is external to Taoism. That's like saying that Christianity is flawed and dangerous because it doesn't lead us to worship and fear the almighty Zeus. Not interesting, not intelligent, just simplistic and stupid.

And finally, a fantastic argument that has to be quoted

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Taoism stresses a balance in the universe. If do not live a good life, you will suffer the consequences. If you live a good life, you will be justly rewards.

Dangerous? hardly.

You know what scares me? Crusades (especially the children's), the Inquisition, St. Bartholemieu (sp?) massacre, IRA, Army of Christ, and other extremist groups. Possibly some of the most novel forms of torture and execution were developed in the name of Christianity. And you dare call taoism dangerous? When's the last time you heard of a radical taoist? The most radical I can think of live as humble monks doing charity and maintaining temples.
I call it the money shot.



Anyway, I'm by no means a Taoist and have only really read the Tao Te Ching (that's the extent of my knowledge) but I found the Taoist ontology to be very useful.

Last edited by zack : 12-10-2006 at 07:48 PM.
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Old 12-10-2006, 09:18 PM #27
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Originally Posted by zack View Post
You need to read the Tao Te Ching before you start bashing people's religion because you're making yourself look like an idiot. Taoism, by my understanding, is built in many ways around the idea of living a good life. The Tao Te Ching, as near as I can tell, was written as a handbook to ruling a country (largely through inaction, through letting things fall into their natural order). Someone with a better understanding than me can explain this better, I'm sure, but just know that you're wrong. And it has little relation at all to "living for the moment," the moment is not the Tao in the same way that the Tao that can be written is not the Tao. It may be an expression of the Tao, but it most certainly is not the Tao.

In addition, your standard of measure is flawed to begin with as it hold the religion to a measure (a seemingly Judeo-Christian measure) that is external to Taoism. That's like saying that Christianity is flawed and dangerous because it doesn't lead us to worship and fear the almighty Zeus. Not interesting, not intelligent, just simplistic and stupid.

And finally, a fantastic argument that has to be quoted


I call it the money shot.



Anyway, I'm by no means a Taoist and have only really read the Tao Te Ching (that's the extent of my knowledge) but I found the Taoist ontology to be very useful.
stfu its over if you have read the rest of the thread and thats my opinion so i could care less what you think
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Old 12-11-2006, 12:31 AM #28
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Christianity.
Yeah, the whole love thy neighbor as yourself thing never made sense to me
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Old 12-11-2006, 04:36 AM #29
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stfu its over if you have read the rest of the thread and thats my opinion so i could care less what you think
I did read the thread and, while I'm aware that it's your opinion, the fact that you posted it seems to me to say "please, talk to me," so I did.
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Old 12-11-2006, 08:26 AM #30
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Yeah, the whole love thy neighbor as yourself thing never made sense to me
Yeah, but I did get the part about owning slaves and killing those who disagree with you.
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Old 12-11-2006, 04:14 PM #31
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Taoism does not seem to be a religion, for it seems to have nothing to do with a deity of sorts and more about living according to the dao, or am I wrong?
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Old 12-11-2006, 04:15 PM #32
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Taoism does not seem to be a religion, for it seems to have nothing to do with a deity of sorts and more about living according to the dao, or am I wrong?
Since when did a religion require a deity or godhead?
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:02 PM #33
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i consider it a dangerous religion because its followers beleive once you die its over and you sort of live for the moment or the "tao"
Thus showing you ignorance! If you would have read his brief summary, he clearly states
Quote:
each person has a "chi" that they must take care of
^taoists promote healthy lifestyles because of that

a person's goals are compassion, moderation and humility

think before you act

be kind to other people because actions are reciprocated

people are compassionate by nature
Please read and stop being so intolerant. Just because someone doesn't believe in an afterlife exactly as your religion, doesn't mean that they are not good people; consider looking at your own religion before criticizing others.
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:17 PM #34
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Since when did a religion require a deity or godhead?
That's just silly if it doesn't. It is no longer a religion, now it is a mere ideology. If taoism is a religion, than a low-carb diet could be a religion-both involve following a certain way of doing things with little spirituality involved.
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:22 PM #35
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That's just silly if it doesn't. It is no longer a religion, now it is a mere ideology. If taoism is a religion, than a low-carb diet could be a religion-both involve following a certain way of doing things with little spirituality involved.
Since when do you quantify what is or is not a religion?

Religion—sometimes used interchangeably with faith or belief system—is commonly defined as belief concerning the supernatural, sacred, or divine, and the moral codes, practices and institutions associated with such belief. In its broadest sense some have defined it as the sum total of answers given to explain humankind's relationship with the universe. In the course of the development of religion, it has taken a huge number of forms in various cultures and individuals. ...

There is no reason a god is necessary to have religious beliefs
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:24 PM #36
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Since when do you quantify what is or is not a religion?

Religion—sometimes used interchangeably with faith or belief system—is commonly defined as belief concerning the supernatural, sacred, or divine, and the moral codes, practices and institutions associated with such belief. In its broadest sense some have defined it as the sum total of answers given to explain humankind's relationship with the universe. In the course of the development of religion, it has taken a huge number of forms in various cultures and individuals. ...

There is no reason a god is necessary to have religious beliefs
Well religions seem to have a necessary spirituality around them, and involve some sort of faith that can never be proven. In my opinion, if a religion has no sort of such spirituality, it is not a religion and merely a ideology.
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:25 PM #37
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That's just silly if it doesn't. It is no longer a religion, now it is a mere ideology. If taoism is a religion, than a low-carb diet could be a religion-both involve following a certain way of doing things with little spirituality involved.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoist_doctrine

Each person must nurture the Tao or 3 bodily energies (Jing, Ch’i, Shen) through activities such as exercise and meditation.

Sounds pretty spiritual to me.

I am curious, do you often make up your own definitions?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion
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re·li·gion /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-lij-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

Nope, nothing about a god. Also, why would a god be required for spirituality?

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spir·it /ˈspɪrɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[spir-it] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. the principle of conscious life; the vital principle in humans, animating the body or mediating between body and soul.
2. the incorporeal part of humans: present in spirit though absent in body.
3. the soul regarded as separating from the body at death.
4. conscious, incorporeal being, as opposed to matter: the world of spirit.
still no requirement of a god.

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Old 12-11-2006, 07:27 PM #38
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Well religions seem to have a necessary spirituality around them, and involve some sort of faith that can never be proven. In my opinion, if a religion has no sort of such spirituality, it is not a religion and merely a ideology.
But that doesn't say anything about needing a god. I think of religion simply as something that tries to answer why we are here and what we should be doing with ourselves.
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:28 PM #39
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Well religions seem to have a necessary spirituality around them, and involve some sort of faith that can never be proven. In my opinion, if a religion has no sort of such spirituality, it is not a religion and merely a ideology.
And again, do you often substitute your own definition if you do not like the commonly accepted one?
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:44 PM #40
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And again, do you often substitute your own definition if you do not like the commonly accepted one?
The commonly accepted one involves a God. The vast majority of religions do. If a religion has no sorts of deities involved in it, then like I said, a low-carb diet or even being a vegetarian could be a religion.
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:51 PM #41
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The commonly accepted one involves a God. The vast majority of religions do. If a religion has no sorts of deities involved in it, then like I said, a low-carb diet or even being a vegetarian could be a religion.
So why do you think taoism is not a religion? Apparently some forms have deities. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Pure_Ones

Also, does a diet have spiritual energies like Taoism?

And I guess it depends who you ask, but I would say that a religion requires no god. I know some people who would agree. I guess in my reality and on dictionary.com I am right.
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Old 12-11-2006, 07:52 PM #42
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The commonly accepted one involves a God. The vast majority of religions do. If a religion has no sorts of deities involved in it, then like I said, a low-carb diet or even being a vegetarian could be a religion.
Commonly accepted by who? I checked the definition online and so did casey, so what exactly do you mean by "commonly accepted".

Also, no being on a diet or a vegetarian could not be religions. They tell you nothing of why you are on this earth, what you are meant to do with yourself, what happens after you die or answer any other religions questions, which taoism assumedly does. The comparison is so bad I hope you only made it for argument's sake.
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