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View Poll Results: Do you believe in the Bible
Yes 94 43.32%
No 107 49.31%
Unsure 16 7.37%
Voters: 217. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:34 AM #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshGrrrr View Post
Everything you've said is common sense that in no way contradicts anything I've posted. It is these liberal translations that I am referring to. Are they not the word of god? You are saying the same thing that I said. What are you arguing with?

The translations I have read are not what is actually written? That doesn't make sense at all. Have you read the entire bible pre-translation? I doubt it. I doubt you can read Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. If not you don't know what is in it and are talking out of yor ***. Maybe you should do a little research before you start talking down to people. How are your opinions any more fully informed than mine is?

EDIT: Why should I be careful of what I say? I someone gonna come beat me up?..lol
Don't doubt without knowing. I actaully help translate the word of the Bible into different languages for use in Africa. We often have to get the original texts in order to translate into some languages. So like I said before....The translations (of the bible) that you read are not what is actually written (in the original texts).

As far as being careful of what you say. No, nobody is going to do a thing to you physically....but you will have proved the old saying, "Better to remain silent and have people THINK you are an idiot, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt." That is what I mean.
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Old 12-08-2006, 07:59 PM #44
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Last I checked, the original texts no longer existed. All that is available is copies of the translated copies of the original copies. They are just as prone to contradictions and errors in translation as any of the new translations are.

Maybe you should take your own advice.
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Old 12-08-2006, 08:18 PM #45
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Exactly.....you can not state facts about contradictions if you do not have the real text....you might as well re-write a book yourself with your own spin offs and call it good.

You can not believe in the bible if you are not religious. The whole books is for the faith based. If you don't believe you don't understand. You might as well say that you believe in Dr. Suess's Cat in the Hat if you don't have faith.
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Old 12-08-2006, 08:18 PM #46
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Originally Posted by Aggressive Bill View Post
There are slight differences when translated, but the basic is there. Is it distorted? No. There are just some things that once you look at it from its original language, become much deeper and even make more sense.
I'll have whatever you're smoking. Seriously, you think things don't get distorted in translation? I've worked as a professional translator, and I'm here to guarantee you that they most definitely do. And also, looking at the bible in its original text is also largely confusing due to transcription errors over the years. I have a friend who got his M.Div a couple years ago, I asked him to read to me from his Greek bible, and parts of it are so screwed up that he can't even decipher them.

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Old 12-08-2006, 08:35 PM #47
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Originally Posted by JoshGrrrr View Post
Last I checked, the original texts no longer existed. All that is available is copies of the translated copies of the original copies.
No, we have copies in the original languages.
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Old 12-08-2006, 08:45 PM #48
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Originally Posted by Conqueror View Post
I'll have whatever you're smoking. Seriously, you think things don't get distorted in translation? I've worked as a professional translator, and I'm here to guarantee you that they most definitely do. And also, looking at the bible in its original text is also largely confusing due to transcription errors over the years. I have a friend who got his M.Div a couple years ago, I asked him to read to me from his Greek bible, and parts of it are so screwed up that he can't even decipher them.

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You're correct.

Remember the Bible has been translated from Hebrew into Greek, Latin, and English. Translation errors are to be expected. I've even heard that the word "virgin" as referring to Mary may have actually replaced the word "young girl." This would undermine the basic teaching that Jesus' birth was miraculous.
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Old 12-08-2006, 08:48 PM #49
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Originally Posted by PhantomGhost View Post
Exactly.....you can not state facts about contradictions if you do not have the real text....you might as well re-write a book yourself with your own spin offs and call it good.

You can not believe in the bible if you are not religious. The whole books is for the faith based. If you don't believe you don't understand. You might as well say that you believe in Dr. Suess's Cat in the Hat if you don't have faith.

Do you think the thread starter was referring to the original texts when he asked "Do you believe in the bible, if no why not"? Of course not. I doubt he is referring to a version that he or anyone reading this thread could never possibly have access to. It's fairly obvious that he is referring to the modern day translations. So, to a non idiot logic would tell them that I'm not talking about the original, non-existant texts. Your argument is dumb and has nothing to do with this thread. "The Bible" in the context of this thread is not referring to the original, non existant texts. So, I can definatley talk about contradictions and errors all I want and know what I'm talking about.

I know why I don't believe in the bible. Believe it or not, I know better about that than you do. You don't have to tell me. I don't believe in it because I think it is utter BS. Of course that would equate to me not having faith in it.

So, you are saying that you can't believe in the bible if you aren't religious? Well, duh. That is the most pointless, asinine statement I've seen in a long time. You've done nothing but talk down to me like I'm an idiot since you started posting in this thread, but your posts have been pretty damn dumb. Like I said earlier, take your own advice.

BTW, you said on one post that you use the original texts to translate. The next post you agreed with me that the original texts don't exist. If you are going to argue with others and accuse them of not knowing what they are talking about, you may want to try not making up your end of the argument as you go.
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Old 12-08-2006, 08:54 PM #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoytie View Post
No, we have copies in the original languages.
No we don't.

What most people refer to as the original texts are really translated copies of the original texts. The original New Testament texts are long gone.

Some people THINK that we have unchanged copies of the old testament in the original language, but that really depends on whether or not you trust the people who did the copying.
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Old 12-08-2006, 08:54 PM #51
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Originally Posted by PhantomGhost View Post
Don't doubt without knowing. I actaully help translate the word of the Bible into different languages for use in Africa. We often have to get the original texts in order to translate into some languages. So like I said before....The translations (of the bible) that you read are not what is actually written (in the original texts).

As far as being careful of what you say. No, nobody is going to do a thing to you physically....but you will have proved the old saying, "Better to remain silent and have people THINK you are an idiot, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt." That is what I mean.
How is it you have access to the original texts? They are not in circulation.

Also, instead of trying to translate the Bible into African languages why not do something more useful like teaching them how to use condoms?

By the way JoshGrrrr what part of 'Bama are you from?
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:04 PM #52
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Originally Posted by Kellster View Post
How is it you have access to the original texts? They are not in circulation.

Also, instead of trying to translate the Bible into African languages why not do something more useful like teaching them how to use condoms?

By the way JoshGrrrr what part of 'Bama are you from?
He doesn't have access. That's just him making **** up to try to win an argument...lol

The condom comment was actually pretty funny. They need aids education much more than they need religious education. Missions to places where people don't know Jesus are dumb anyway. They are really just sending people to hell. If the people there lived their entire life without ever hearing of Jesus they would go to heaven by default. These people go over there and educate them about Jesus and as a result a good portion of them will go to hell for not accepting it as truth. Not only will they go to hell when they die, they will spend the rest of their lives worrying whether or not that crazy white guy was right that they were going to spend eternity in a lake of fire for not believing him. If they had left them alone they would have had a ticket to heaven. Now they have a life of worry and fear and a potential eternity in torment. Good job guys.

BTW, I'm from Cullman.
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:28 PM #53
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Not as it's written, no. As mentioned, the Bible was put together out of so many varying aspects of what the churches of the times wanted, it's tainted as a historical document. Additionally, those stories, many of them, originate long before people commonly used the written word. So, the stories were passed verbally from generation to generation. I've used the analogy of "playing telephone" with my kids... even in a 20-kid class, a simple message is totally wrong by the time it gets to the last person. Take a look at who finally started printing presses, and what book was first off that press. No big surprise, a monk, working for the church, turning out their version of the alleged Holy Word.

Somewhat off the original topic, I have to laugh to myself anytime I see anyone make the comment that the Bible is not to be taken literally. Or, conversely, that it IS to be taken literally. I've heard the same people say both, depending on what point they're trying to drive home. If the Bible is a rough guideline, then it's open to interpretation. If it's to be taken literally, then we should be killing the neighbors we have who have to work their jobs on Sunday. Can't have this one both ways, but plenty of people try.
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Old 12-08-2006, 09:33 PM #54
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Somewhat off the original topic, I have to laugh to myself anytime I see anyone make the comment that the Bible is not to be taken literally. Or, conversely, that it IS to be taken literally. I've heard the same people say both, depending on what point they're trying to drive home. If the Bible is a rough guideline, then it's open to interpretation. If it's to be taken literally, then we should be killing the neighbors we have who have to work their jobs on Sunday. Can't have this one both ways, but plenty of people try.
It's not really off topic. It's another reason that I find the bible so hard to believe.

I've noticed the same thing. When trying to damn homosexuals or someone else they quote word for word the scripture that allows them to do so. They will even choose one single word and concentrate on it and it's meaning and how that backs up their point. When you bring up part of the bible that is just too silly to believe they say "well, that's not meant to be taken literally" or "well, in the original text that word didn't mean the exact same thing that it does in this version". How the interpret the bible depends on what point they are trying to prove. I've noticed that most people take the bible and instead of following it they force it to follow them and what they believe by ingoring certain parts or manipulating the words to mean what they want. Then, in the next breath they will say "I believe every single word of it".
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:06 PM #55
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In regards to loss in translation: let's be frank. HOW amplified can differences be.
Moses hooked a fish will never become Moses banged a hooker who smelled like fish
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Old 12-08-2006, 10:59 PM #56
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The differences can be huge. Like I said before, the differences are enough so that some Christian organizations that follow the King James Version call some of the newer versions "Devil Bibles". One little word can make a huge difference. Don't forget that verses are often deleted during translation. There is more to it than just "lost in translation". Just small changes like changing "God was manifest in the flesh" to "He appeared in a body" can make drastic differences in how it is interpreted.

Here are some pages where Christians are raising hell about very popular modern translations. This is just one website. If the new versions are different enough to outrage Christians in this way then I'd say there are definately some big differences.

http://www.av1611.org/kjv/mess_bible.html
http://www.av1611.org/niv.html
http://www.av1611.org/nkjv.html
http://www.av1611.org/biblecom.html
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Old 12-08-2006, 11:15 PM #57
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I guess I fall under the unsure catergory, I don't believe in the Bible 100% but I think the basic message is in there.
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Old 12-08-2006, 11:28 PM #58
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I guess I fall under the unsure catergory, I don't believe in the Bible 100% but I think the basic message is in there.
Although we can never be truly sure you should at least adhere to a belief. I actually have a beef with Christians in that so many of them pick and choose what parts of the Bible they want to believe. I most have missed the verse where God said; "Go forth ye and decide for yourself what it is that thouth believe and edit the message as thee please." No, you have to take the Bible as a whole. You either believe it is the most perfect book ever written and details the salvation of humanity and is completely true or you don't.

I don't.
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Old 12-09-2006, 06:35 AM #59
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I am so sorry...I thought I was talking to someone who would know that we (at the Concordia Publishing House) don't go over to book shelf and grab "original" scolls that were hundreds of years old, roll them out, and start scribbling translations on them I am so sorry that I didn't spell that out. Next time I will make sure I don't assume I am talking to someone who has a little common sense. My bad.
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Old 12-09-2006, 06:56 AM #60
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VII. Moon Dust

The vehicles prepared for landing on the moon were equipped with special snow shoes because it was assumed that if the moon was billions of years old there should be an incredibly thick layer of dust on the moon created by such things as meteor impact. They discovered only one-fourth of an inch of dust on the moon! This amount of dust can account for only thousands of years. If the moon is billions of years old, where did all the dust accumulated during this time go?
that was most likely only assumed so that the spacecraft wasnt lost and millions and billions of dollars were not wasted in lunar exploration. they took precautionary measures and you are trying to make them sound like idiots for doing so. now that we have the data on such experiments, science can prevail once again.
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X. The Rings of Saturn

If the universe is billions of years old, we must assume that the rings of Saturn are of this age. Given the rate of orbital and structural decay, if the rings of Saturn are billions of years old, they should have collapsed and blurred into one vast confusion. Yet the rings are so distinct that over a thousand of them can be counted and some of them look as if they were braided by twisting around each other. Given the laws of physics, the rings must be viewed as young and not old. If the rings are billions of years old, why are they clear and distinct?
how do you know those rings didnt get created 10,000 years ago, when no one in history was recording whether or not they existed?


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X. The Rings of Saturn

If the universe is billions of years old, we must assume that the rings of Saturn are of this age.
bull****. you cant assume something that vast. who says it didnt happen 4,000 years ago? 10,000? 20,000? none of us were here, yet it is still a very acute sum of what you consider happened billions of years ago.

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Old 12-09-2006, 08:01 AM #61
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Do you have answers for the other ones?

If your only argument is for the Saturn Rings....I can give you that one because that I understand....can you explain the others though?

Don't need to swear though
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Old 12-09-2006, 08:28 AM #62
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I'll have whatever you're smoking. Seriously, you think things don't get distorted in translation? I've worked as a professional translator, and I'm here to guarantee you that they most definitely do. And also, looking at the bible in its original text is also largely confusing due to transcription errors over the years. I have a friend who got his M.Div a couple years ago, I asked him to read to me from his Greek bible, and parts of it are so screwed up that he can't even decipher them.

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Things aren't so distorted that its considered drastically changed. Greek does have tenses that English doesn't. Greek has some ways of explaining things that English doesn't. I'm sure your friend had a hard time reading some of the Greek. Its a tough language. However, just because he had a hard time does not prove that the bible is messed up. It just shows that, although M. Div is a great thing to attain, translating the bible isn't his thing. It takes a lot to be able to do that. I know M. Div is a lot so don't think I'm bashing your friend at all. There are many scholars who can translate it.

And thanks for the links Josh. I like reading those differences about translations. I will agree with the Message bible being a pain in the butt. I dislike that version very much and would not care if it disappeared. But the rest aren't usually all that different. Some get all bent out of shape if its not King James and look into things way more and so jaded that they miss the point. I've read through some of those arguments and the dude is going a little too far. Some of them made me laugh. The message behind the words are not lost. They are changed a bit, but not to where it changes the message of the text.

I like what you all are saying. Good stuff. However, don't base the bible's validity off of the fact that some people misuse the bible to fit whatever they want. This is a big part of why people can't believe the bible. Too many people making it out to fit their own beliefs. The guys going around telling people they are going to hell and quote scripture to back it up miss some basic things. There are a lot of dumb Christians out there who give the bible a bad rep. When using the bible, you have to use the previous paragraph, the following paragraph, the book as a whole, and then in the bible as a whole. If a lot more people did this, there wouldn't be half of this crazy stuff going on.
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Old 12-09-2006, 08:37 AM #63
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He doesn't have access. That's just him making **** up to try to win an argument...lol

The condom comment was actually pretty funny. They need aids education much more than they need religious education. Missions to places where people don't know Jesus are dumb anyway. They are really just sending people to hell. If the people there lived their entire life without ever hearing of Jesus they would go to heaven by default. These people go over there and educate them about Jesus and as a result a good portion of them will go to hell for not accepting it as truth. Not only will they go to hell when they die, they will spend the rest of their lives worrying whether or not that crazy white guy was right that they were going to spend eternity in a lake of fire for not believing him. If they had left them alone they would have had a ticket to heaven. Now they have a life of worry and fear and a potential eternity in torment. Good job guys.

BTW, I'm from Cullman.
No offense man, but its easy to say all that from America. You might wanna get off of your butt and see just what they do in before making light of it. They do just what you said and more as well as talk about God with them. I know you are trying to be funny, but right now you look like an comfortable American idiot. Go out and visit them and then come back and say the same stuff. I gurantee you won't be able to.
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