Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-27-2006, 03:28 PM #1
*Endo*21
ruoy gnikcuf diputs
 
*Endo*21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: *503* PDX
The Ultimate INFO WTF Happened at OC Thread

So I made this thread because theres just so much evidence coming up everywhere, and if anyone ever plans to use it, well they gotta know where to look. I made this in hope that Magued or someone who has more authority than I do could do smoething with it. So Im gonna try and not repeat everything over and over, but theres gonna be repeats. This is gonna be long but its cuz theres just SO much stuff in this whole thing. Im gonna try to keep opinions out for the most part but with anything like this you know they’re gonna be there.
(These are the sites/ vids I’VE looked at, Im sure theres always more that are gonna come out)

VIDS
Lucky PB
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRZZJsZVmbo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OodM5...elated&search=
www.pbstar.com
www.pbfilms.com

PICS
(some video sites)
www.blacklistphoto.com

PLAYERS:
Dynasty: Brian Cole (wedge) + Alex Fraige (snake)
Joy: Scandal (JD1/ Snake) + Sebban (Back Center)


Myths-
-JD1 (Scandal) was shot on his way to bunker Alex.
There isn’t anyone credible enough (at this time) to say who shot who first. It can be seen that Alex is clearly shot and that Scandal was hit on the rear of his shoulder. Speculation says that Scandal shot Alex first if that’s the only hit he had on him. Regardless any others could have come off in the slide.
Point towards that: How did Dan Perez make the call that the player was playing on, when the snake ref pulled Alex not Scandal? Because Alex was hit first is what is said.
-Dan Perez didn’t pull Scandal because he was wiping off Alex.
My question is, Why did Alex get his armband pulled right then? If he was pulled then there obviously was no wiping off. And wouldn’t Alex still be a part of the game if he was wiped off?
-Was BC hit running to the snake?
People say yes and there are possible hits on his wrist/ shoulder that could be from it. So theres no definitive evidence at this point (as far as I know). Video shows that Sabban was on that side of his bunker so he could have easily shot him.
-Was Scandal playing on when he shot BC?
Its up to the refs call. It shows that Scandal was shot on that run, but on the back shoulder. And theres the “who shot who first”. Refs pulled Alex and not Scandal at the time. Then when BC jumped the snake and the 2 shot each other Refs say “You’re out, you’re both out.” Meaning they were out THEN one would assume. Either way the ref pulls BC’s armband and still not Scandal’s.
-Sabban was clean going into the chaos of things?
True
-Sabban overshot BC?
It’s the truth, Sabban lit up BC pretty good. In retaliation, BC had his gun lifted and tracing Sebban, then he also fires at least twice. Both Alex and BC were just standing around when they should have had to leave. So they deserved getting some shots. Maybe not that many.
-BC shot Sebban on his run through.
Its true, he shot him at least twice. You can watch the Lucky vid. This definitely provoked some extra shots to BC.
-Alex grabbed Sebban?
Yes, its show in video and pictures. He clearly pulls Sabban’s jersey rather firmly.
-Joy got to argue the refs?
No Refs made their ruling and didn’t consult Joy or videos.
__________________
HGAY
I got raped...but I was on top
S.I
*Endo*21 is offline  
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 10-27-2006, 03:30 PM #2
*Endo*21
ruoy gnikcuf diputs
 
*Endo*21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: *503* PDX
***_--BIG POINTS--_***

UPDATED-Before the quotes I'd like to point something out
Perez states that since Joy got the alleged 3 for 1 that Dynasty gets the automatic pull and hang.
Rule 20.02 of the NPPL Rule Book says: "If the last player on a team is found to have been playing on with an obvious hit or wiping then the other team will automatically be awarded the pull and hang."
No where in that whole thing does it say someone else getting called for a penalty you get the auto flag pull/hang. Basically Dynasty HAD to pull the flag in order to win. Unfortunately for Dynasty everyone was pulled...hmmm

Magued’s Statements
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Idris
Hi everybody.

Here is the 10 questions we have asked NPPL after the fiasco they call reffing. Yes we wont make a scene, but we will fight for our right. I will post the answer we recive from them as soon as we get them. Will be very intresting to see what they have to say.


Here is the 10 questions we have asked Dave Z and Dan Perez.
This is something we need to get a satifiyng answer to as the way things was handled isnt acceptable.

1.According to NPPL rules, the flag is only automatically hung when the last player is eliminated because he played on or wiped.

"20.02 Elimination of Last Player. If the last player on a team is found to have been
playing on with an obvious hit or wiping then the other team will automatically be awarded the pull
and the hang."

Regarding the penalty you guys gave us, reading the NPPL rules it seems that you messed up. Our last player didnt recive a penalty for playing on. So how could you apply the swing points? On the other hand BC as Dynastys last player clearly played on, shooting sebban without a armband.

2. Why wasnt we allowed to talk to you and Dan but Brian Cole was. And state our case. We would have been able to give some input on blatent lies Alex and Brian Cole gave you during the talk they had with you. ( look at pbstar.com final video )

3. Why did Dan Perez say that HE SAW a Joy player shoot after hes armband was taken off and therefor recive a 3-4-1 penalty when this never happened? Proof is that our player still have hes armband on long after the incident. Pictures and film availible.

4. How come Brian Cole didnt recive a penalty when he shoot hes gun after hes armband was removed. I would suggest a 3-4-1?
Proof availible

5. How come nobody removed Alex Fraige and Brian Cole after their armband was removed from the snake?

6. How come Alex Fraige was allowed to chase our player and physicly stop Sebban from Joy to move up. Without a armband and called out from a reff? And why didnt he recive a penalty?

7. How come You guys didnt ask the other reffs what they called and saw? The reffs that actuelly did their job and removed both Alex and Brian Cole.

8. Why was it such a hurry to get a ruling?

9. What exactly is the status for our suspension?

10. And what is the status of Dynasty regarding suspensions?


We will argue that the penalty you gave us for shooting after being called out and without a armband never happend. And we got the proof for it! It was the other way around that Dynasty did exactly that.

Here is the proof that our player that went in to the snake never got hes armband removed.

http://www.blacklistphoto.com/photos.../index0021.htm

See pictures 6771

The same guy Dan Perez SAW shoot without hes armband.
Dont even try to say that it was player number 2 as he also had hes armband all the time!

For a reminder of your ruling please watch the video on nppl.tv
Aprox 14 minutes in Dan and you explain this. Now when we have proof of that Dynasty did it and we didnt, will you rule the same or will it be a sorry to late answer? If youre not ruling the same will you please explain for us and the entire paintball world why its a difference between us and them?

Thanks, I would appricate a answer as soon as possible
Your answer will be posted all over the internet and PGI, Facefull and a handfull of other media that have contacted us.

Magued Idris - Joy Stockholm
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.Idris
First of all I want to thank everybody for the support during the weekend. Second thing we want to tell everybody to stop blaming Dynasty and their players for anything during the finals. We all play as hard as we can and we feel its the reffs job to sort out any issues. We have huge respect for Dynasty and many of them are good friends of us.

We do however have a huge issue with Dan Perez the ulimate in NPPL. He made the calls that made it possible for not only give the win to Dynasty but also give us a suspension.

The point we want to raise is those. Look at the video on www.nppl.tv

1. The entire call from Dan Perez to give Dynasty the game doesnt add up. It doesnt make any sense and we feel the only thing Dan Perez was doing was to find a way to give Dynasty the game. We lost the game beacuse of a 3-4-1 call dan made. He motivated this call by saying our guy going in to the snake was called out, and hes armband was removed. He says this in the video when he declare hes ruling. See video at nppl.tv aprox 14 minutes in to the video. And he says that this is what he saw. This picture proves that it is a lie. Our player diving in to the snake didnt get hes armband removed! Dan Perez never saw our player shoot without a armband beacuse it never happend. He should have seen both Dynasty players infracting after they had their armbands off, but he "didnt see that"

http://www.blacklistphoto.com/photo...06/IM6771.jpg G_

See scandals blue armband on hes left arm.
On the other hand all Dynasty players gets there armbands removed and continue to play on, Brian Cole shoot our remaining player without hes armband, and Alex Fraige acts like a reff stopping our player and pulls hes jersey etc.



2. As Brian Cole goes from the center A to the snake he gets shot 2 times in hes arm. The ref pulls hes armband as soon as he jumps over the snake and shoot at our snake player. Its very clear in the video. Why didnt he recive a 1 4 1?

3. IF we got a penalty beacuse our player that went to bunker Alex in the snake shoot hes gun after hes armband was taken off, why didnt Brain Cole get the same penalty as he clearly shoot at Sebban after hes armband was off?
Evidence of that is the picture with Sebban having hits on hes head while the reffs was pushing him back.
Everybody agrees that Sebban is clean when he runs in to the chaos, so why doesnt the shooting Dynasty do after thier armbands is off result in any penalty? Even Dan Perez and all the reffs claims that Sebban was clean comming in as the last player. So why doesnt Brian Cole recive any penalty for shooting at Sebban after hes armband is taken off? Instead Joy recive a penalty on exactly the same thing?

4. Why can Alex Fraige still be in the area without a armband without any reff pulls him out of the way of the game? He even stop Sebban by grabbing him and then proceed to run after our player and together with some reffs stop Sebban

5. Why wasnt we allowed to talk to the reffs after the incident but Brian Cole of Dynasty was allowed to state hes case? The video shows that they discuss the issue and during that time joy are not allowed to approch the ultimate, Dave Zinkham and Brian Cole.


In any case I told dan Perez that when the pictures comes out he will look bad making those calls. As he managed to "not see" any infractions from Dynasty but alot of infractions from Joy.He managed to find a 3-4-1 penalty on Joy and a suspension penalty on Joy and not a singel issue with Dynasty. Isnt that amazing? And now when both pictures and videos are comming out it makes it even more amazing. I dont buy it and in every single dispute over calls I have had with him he have gone against Joy in the past .
Now we are awaiting the rule committes descision about if we will recive a suspension. If its up to Dan Perez Im pretty sure how it will go. The claim is that Sebban shoot Brian Cole to many times. Its funna considering Brian Cole is shooting back ( without a armband ) and he didnt even recive a 1 4 1...

I cant belive how in a final game in the final NPPL for the year. A game that will decide so much for Dynasty, Joy and Xsv the reffs can be so out of position that not all angles are covered. Especially when its only 4 players alive on the field. Instead of having 1 reff inside the snake there was 3-4 reffs on the tape line just a few feet from each other. That was Dan Perez job to make sure it worked. Not being on the field!

Magued Idris - Joy Stockholm
__________________
HGAY
I got raped...but I was on top
S.I

Last edited by *Endo*21 : 11-01-2006 at 02:06 AM.
*Endo*21 is offline  
Old 10-27-2006, 03:31 PM #3
*Endo*21
ruoy gnikcuf diputs
 
*Endo*21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: *503* PDX
My Own Statements Along with other peoples
Quote:
Originally Posted by *Endo*21
So I did a little looking at this stuff for myself. I came up with some stuff, and found a couple more questions that I think should be asked.

Heres my perferred video on this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRZZJsZVmbo

Some intersesting points I'd like to point out from the video.
Dan Perez states that when JD1 comes by and bunkers Alex that he goes to wipe Alex off. This is very interesting to me for 2 reasons.
1. If you look at 6:32-6:34 on that video at Alex's left arm his armband is gone. Why would they pull his armband if he's wiping off Fraige?
2 Why is Fraige mingling around when "he was being wiped off"? Wouldnt he still be in the game?

Dan also says that his armband was taken off, he acknowledges that he's out, but the player turns and shoots BC. Whaa?
1. For this to be true JD1 player's band would have to get pulled before 6:27 in the movie.(Before BC jumps the snake)
2. Fact is that it gets pulled after Sebban runs through (he gets it pulled at 6:44)

I think its also strange that Alex stands around, walks to one side of the snake to the other. IE NOT going off the field after being hit. Its about a 25sec interval of Alex standing around. (6:29-6:53 on the vid)


This pic is at 6:33 on that vid. Ref removes the armbands of Dynasty players and leave the JD players on for a while. Sebban got pulled at 6:38. First JD got pulled at 6:44. Basically Im saying Dynasty got pulled easily a while before any JD players did.

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5066/img6751fd0.jpg

I just wanted to point out in the pic that Alex grabbed Sebban pretty firmly on the jerey. (6:35 in the Vid)

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/6...gsebbansw2.jpg

This pic shows JD1 with his armband STILL ON. And then if you look at Sebban's face you'll notice a fat hit. When he ran into that mess he was clean...but left dirty. Strange that noone but BC has his gun up and pointed at Sebban...(6:39ish in the Vid)

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/9578/blueabonnr7.jpg

Couple other things. If you watch the vid, you'll see that Sebban stops shooting before lighting up BC's hopper. Why did he continue?? Was it because BC decided to shoot Sebban? I think so.

So in addition to your questions now...I'd add. (dont have to but I think they're important)

-How did BC shooting Sebban go conveniently unnoticed?

-Dan, if you were "wiping Alex off" when the JD player in the snake is allowed to play...Why is Alex armband pulled, and he is walking around? If he was wiped off, why isnt he still in?

-Dan, If you said that YOU pulled off the JD player's armband...wouldnt YOU be certain you did. Kinda wierd how its very clear you never touched his armband. You grabbed Sebban's armband while 2 other refs were pulling him away. But never touch JD1's band. Lies much?

I dunno I hope this helped shed some extra light on this whole thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekwarrior81 View Post
ref 28 watched Alex get bunkered. If he thought Alex got Scandal as he ran by, he wouldnt have pulled BC, because he would have thought that SCandal was out and couldnt have traded out with BC.

I think that hit on Scandals shoulder is from Alex shooting him well after he was out. Look at some of the pics and see how far he tracks the Joy player as he runs by

Quote:
Originally Posted by killingmachine4life
I saw your post and just wanted to make another one to kinda push your opinion a little more

In the just released PBStar video

at 9:29-10:00

This is where it all happens.

JD 1 who bunkers fraige, dives in after shooting fraige, ref pulls fraige FAILS to pull the JD player, BC Bunkers JD lights up BC.

Ref says " YOU ARE BOTH GONE!!!" this right thier was the call by the reff.

BC's arm band is removed.

2nd JD player comes around few seconds after BC's armband has been removed and GETS SHOT BY BC after his armband was removed!

As well he shoots both fraige and bc but thats because he didnt know what was going on. BC shot back making him shoot more but BC still shot after achnowledging and hearing a reff say he was out.

Point this out because again you guys won OC hands down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by killingmachine4life
well again the point im making is

BC was allowed to hang the flag *even though in the video you see the refs are saying NO several times to him*

He hanged it AFTER he was eliminated. The JD player came in shooting and in the confusion shot everyone.

Then BC shot back making Sebban shoot more in response.

Fraige chased down the last JD player and followed them back then had to be removed by another referree.

So penatlys for Dynasty:
- Playing on
- Not leaving the field in a timely manner
- Shooting after being eliminated

JD:
- Overshooting? *who doesnt*

This video confirms everything Magued said and it is just sad to watch.

However I think the call was made more out of confusion and wanting to give an answer because BC was being a dick about it and you dont see any JD team member doing that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by themaxx-captain
Absolutely agreed, Why was nothing made of the Dynasty players refusing to leave the field in a timely manner. Not only did Fraige not leave the field, but he grabbed the final live Joy player and tried to prevent him from running through for the flag... then the ref bear hugs the Joy player.

So, we've got 2 Dynasty players refusing to leave the field... one Dynasty player grabs a Joy player in effort to interfere/prevent actions on the field, one Dynasty player without his armband shoots the live Joy Division player.

This needs to be reviewed by the rules committee and the correct decision needs to be made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreb View Post
Well, why the hell were 3 players all without armbands and 2 refs inside the field and on their feet behind one of the knots of the snake with their guns down arguing a call?

Someone failed to get these people out of there quickly. Had this been done probably the last player alive on the field (JD) would have simply checked the field and headed for the flag instead of blasting everyone just to make sure they were out.
__________________
HGAY
I got raped...but I was on top
S.I
*Endo*21 is offline  
Old 10-27-2006, 03:32 PM #4
*Endo*21
ruoy gnikcuf diputs
 
*Endo*21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: *503* PDX
More Statements From other people
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Wounds View Post
There is no fair way for the player to have to regulate himself. That's what the refs are for, and that's why players have armbands.

You can suggest that the Joy player would have been out much earlier and that's why the Dynasty player was retroactively allowed to play on, but you would be wrong. I've never heard of a "dead" player being allowed to re-enter the game because his opponent had wiped first. It is the ref's responsibility to determine the victim's status before pulling the armband, and that conclusion is final.

Allowing a player to play without an armband is unacceptable, period. This is why Perez claimed to have issued the 3-for-1, which is ironic because Dynasty should have suffered for that exact reason.

Perhaps the refs did try their best, and its just too hard to officiate in the chaos on the field. If that's the case, then in my opinion using video replay to settle calls (at least for the semis and finals) is the only solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Tank
You know after watching again I have to say there is somethings that really stink:

Let us asume the call against Joy was ok and Joy did get a 3-4-1 (I know the pics and video shows it was not ok but heck lets go with it).

There are still those facts:

- BC got his armband pulled -> Rulebook says this is final, a player that has his armband pulled is eliminated from the game -> End of Story

- BC fired his gun with his armband pulled -> Rulebook says a player that is eliminated from the game shooting his gun results in a 1-4-1 penalty, if he continues to shoot his gun it is 2-4-1 and then 3-4-1 and so on.

- A player with his armband pulled has to leave the field immediately and has to go to the deadbox -> BC and Fraige did not -> Rulebook says this is counted as playing on and results in a 1-4-1 penalty.

So either Dan does not know the rulebook and if he plays it by the book against Joy, why did those calls get missed?

There are enough penalties against Dynasty to justify a draw game at least...

Again this will hurt the rep of the NPPL as a league dearly as this is cannon fodder for the press and more teams will focus on the PSP that is clearly ahead in reffind this year.

And before someone asks, yes I have been reffing paintball since 1993 and hell I have made bad calls, but this stinks worse than dog poo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguinary
I don't have favorite teams.I have teams I like but no favorites so I'm not biased.I was pulling for joy but lets look at the video:
1.Whats is Fraige doing?He sits there and waits after being pulled.Come on and get out of there!
2.The armband of the joy player was not pulled.
3.Why is BC's gun up?If I were a player coming around the corner I would figure he was still in and trying to shoot me.
4.There is so much going on in the video how does dan decide what happened without talking to a joy player of even looking at some footage?

Also I would like to point out not only does this affect joy and dynasty but it also affects xsv.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TherealInsomniac
A bit off topic however, it applies to the topic. I belive the root of this is not respecting whatthe ref calls regardless of who the ref was. If they players who had been pulled, fragie, BC and whoever was playing snake for JD had just up and left, sebban would never have had to make that run. and he would have been fine and dandy, in the back.
because AF BC wasnt walking back to thier dead box sebban obvously thought someone was still alive, made the run.

Then everyone stood around and argued for a while. some how BC was able to hang the flag with all that paint all over him. regarless of a penalty
both AF and BC were out before Sebban made the run. = Sebban clean, becuase he was shot from a pulled player. but the call was bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RuFiO13
Hmm you can clearly hear the snake ref say to Fraige "You are out, Alex you're out" and then runs down and says " you're both out" to BC the Joy Division player. I'm sorry but you can hear all this pretty clear.
__________________
HGAY
I got raped...but I was on top
S.I
*Endo*21 is offline  
Old 10-27-2006, 03:33 PM #5
*Endo*21
ruoy gnikcuf diputs
 
*Endo*21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: *503* PDX
Well There you go...thats what I picked up last night before everything went down on PBN for the night. If someone has something to add to this PM me or send me a quote and I'll toss it in there. Hope this helps
__________________
HGAY
I got raped...but I was on top
S.I
*Endo*21 is offline  
Old 10-29-2006, 11:10 PM #6
*Endo*21
ruoy gnikcuf diputs
 
*Endo*21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: *503* PDX
More updates
Quote:
Originally Posted by Breikin View Post
Cole has a hit ,Joy snake player also have a hit..=OK

.
.
.
.
Cole HAVE A HIT and his ARMBAND IS OFF
But he is still shooting.. eeh? isint that 1-4-1 and another 1-4-1.




And what is Fraige doing? Touching a player should give 1-4-1
And how about that 3 GAME SUSPENSION.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargbollen View Post
Oh, grow up! It can't be malicious intent to shoot at a dead player aiming his gun and shooting at YOU. And We've all seen the pics of BC afterward, he wasn't hit all that much, even after running through Sebbans line of paint going to the snake, being hit by Karl in the snake (or there was no playing on by Joy, and you can't have it both ways), and then hit by Sebban. Total shots By sebban was 5-7 shots, this while BC put 4-5 shots on him.
What's your problem? It's not that hard to grasp. Your hero kept shooting when his armband had been pulled, and he shot Sebban as much as he had a chance to, in the mask, on the shoulder and on the hopper as clearly seen in pics from just after.

How many pictures do we have to show you guys? How many statements from the people who were actually there on the sidelines? How many videos?
BC got his armband pulled, he was out. Out is out and even the refs can't put you back in the game again after the band is pulled. That is in the NPPL rules. He was out and then levelled his gun at a live player and shot him. That simply is not done, not without a fat penalty.
Instead, he got to grab and hang the flag, still with no armband on.


BTW, as stated several times already, last player (Sebban) can not be elimiated by a teammates' penalty. That is in the NPPL rules (you know, the rulebook Dan claimed to know so well). Last player on either team can ONLY be eliminated by a hit on himself or a penalty for his own actions. Period. No wait! I'll say that again. PERIOD.
This means Sebban was the last player alive on the field. This would have been the case if the refs actually followed the NPPL rulebook.
__________________
HGAY
I got raped...but I was on top
S.I
*Endo*21 is offline  
Old 10-29-2006, 11:11 PM #7
*Endo*21
ruoy gnikcuf diputs
 
*Endo*21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: *503* PDX
UPDATE
Quote:
Originally Posted by feared View Post
Just listen to the reffs choice of words...
first Scandel and Fragie...
"your out" Meaning one of them, and he pulls Fragie's arm band.

Then Scandel and BC
"your both out" meaning both of them.

Just by the reffs own words this means that Scandel was alive to trade out with BC. The reff doesn't yell one 4 one, or do the arm pumping thingy, as if Scandel played on.

I don't see how you can interpret this any other way.

Sebban is still alive and wins game. There is no way that a dead player, like Fragie or BC should be allowed to grab or shoot at Sebban. The only penalty should be on Dynasty.

Now I can see how people will say, it was a bad call and there is nothing we can do. In a normal game that would be true. But this is the pro finals, and the ref went from "draw" to "dynasty wins" with the wrong info. This is more about Improper ruleing then trying to reverse a bad call.

There has been president for changing scores, when rules had been broken. I see no difference with this case. Rules were broken by the reffs and the call should be reversed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Brockdorff View Post
You guys give Pro players too little credit.

When a big game is on the line:

- You don't spin on a guy you know you already hit
- You don't shoot back at a player you already bunkered

Both can easily result in penalties going against you (or simultaneous eliminations), instead of benefitting you... and no seasoned Pro would do that.

Instead you complain like hell, trying to get the refs to call a 141 against your opponents.

So, to me the actions of Alex and BC signify that:

1) Alex did not hit Scandal until he was past him (which is why he spun)
2) BC did not hit Scandal until he was on the ground (which is why he was on the ground shooting)

Also, a lot of people seem to be missing, that many spectators who were there, said that BC was hit in the head before he even made it to the snake, by the back Joy player (Sebban - who runs through at the end).

Now, this cannot be seen in any of the pictures or videos, but if it is true, it just puts further emphazis on Joy being robbed.

Last, the official call from Dan Perez was, that he game was decided by a Joy player having his armband pulled, acknowledging he was eliminated, and THEN shooting a Dynasty player.

If you watch the videos again, you will see that NONE of the last 2 Joy players had their armbands pulled at any time, until it was all over and BC ran for the flag.... none of them ever shot their gun after having their armband pulled.

The only one clearly firing his gun after having his armband pulled and acknowledging his elimination (he was standing around debating it), is BC..... so logically, if the game was decided on a player shooting an opponent after having been eliminated, every picture and video supports that Joy should have received the win.

So, both going by the official call - and going by what the refs SHOULD have called - Joy should have won the tournament, and XSV should have won the series title!

Nick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Brockdorff View Post
The thing is, an eliminated player is supposed to clearly signal he is out and immediately proceed to the deadbox.... and the reason for that is EXACTLY to avoid him getting shot up some more.

BC was standing around arguing, in behind a bunker, where the last Joy player could not see him, so he had no chance of knowing if BC was out or not - and the refs didn't do anything to signal it either.

So, no sane ref could fault the last Joy player for shooting BC when he rounded the bunker he was behind - and no sane ref would make an overshooting call on that action.

Every good ref out there would smile at BC and go "you had that coming dude - now PLEASE proceed to the deadbox without further delay"

What DID happen was, that the Joy player shot BC 3-4 times - BC then shot back (after being eliminated) - and the Joy player then shot him again.

Had BC not brought up his gun and shot the last Joy player, he would only have had 4-5 hits on him total - no way that was overshooting......

Nick
__________________
HGAY
I got raped...but I was on top
S.I

Last edited by *Endo*21 : 11-01-2006 at 01:56 AM.
*Endo*21 is offline  
Old 10-30-2006, 06:22 AM #8
Exit Wounds
doesn't play paintball.
 
Exit Wounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Wicked good post. I'll edit this if I have anything to contribute
__________________
Feedback
Exit Wounds is offline  
Old 10-30-2006, 05:57 PM #9
Vizion Killers
EKK HOE!!!
 
Vizion Killers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 704 baller
Vizion Killers plays in the USPL
Vizion Killers plays in the PSP
Vizion Killers helped look for balloons
Vizion Killers plays in the APPA D4 division
GOOD POST
__________________
LUXE
East Koast Kids NC/SC
Vizion Killers is offline  
Old 10-30-2006, 07:03 PM #10
NaftySquared
Blind Aggression
 
NaftySquared's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Annual Supporting Member
NaftySquared plays in the PSP
NaftySquared is an NCPA player
very well done, thank you for taking the time to clear this up for everyone.
NaftySquared is offline  
Old 10-30-2006, 07:31 PM #11
Aight
GET THE **** OUT
 
Aight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Freddy Beach
 has been a member for 10 years
I have the solution. Obviously the NPPL is not going to reverse the call, at best they will lift the suspension. SO Joy and Dynasty will have to sort this out Rocky style. Both contenders, no rules, no holds barred...street fight.
__________________
FUEL
www.fuelpaintball.com
hate/hate/hate/hate/hate/hate/hate/hate/hate

RIP friday_juice 04/11/03 - 12/09/04 So misunderstood. He was not the first casualty of Xball...he won't be the last.
Aight is offline  
Old 10-30-2006, 07:32 PM #12
lanche4lyf3
W I C K E D M E D I A
 
lanche4lyf3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Rhode Island
i am sorry but you guys need to get over it, it was a tough call by the refs, it is a very hard job to be a ref. Layoff, Joy lost, Dynasty Won. Let is go. Focus on 07. And Endo you need a ****ing life.
lanche4lyf3 is offline  
Old 10-30-2006, 08:11 PM #13
theCOMEBACK
STFU PLZ
 
theCOMEBACK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Francisco
theCOMEBACK is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
^^ No one should 'get over it' until the NPPL responds to the many valid claims coming from Joy. These types of situations REQUIRE the attention of league officials. If not to redetermine who the winner should have been, at least to admit the wrong call was made, set up procedure to prevent similar bad calls from being made, and to give the organizations involved the COMMON COURTESY of reviewing the match.
__________________
STOP POSTING
theCOMEBACK is offline  
Old 10-30-2006, 08:21 PM #14
lanche4lyf3
W I C K E D M E D I A
 
lanche4lyf3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Rhode Island
They wont redetermine the winner just because joy is mad that they lost. That was the right call by the ref. Why should the NPPL say they were wrong when the joy player over shot BC. Get over it. JOY LOST DYNASTY WON, everyone needs to shut the **** up, especially if they werent there to see it, you cant tell what happened by the videos. Let Idris handle it with the NPPL, the joy fans need to stay out of it. Nothing against joy, but i am tired of seeing these threads on pbnation and where ever i go. Let the bigwigs figure it out, there is a slim chance that the call will be reversed but let Joy and the NPPL figure it out. I dont think the NPPL should admit to a wrong call, especially when it is mostly the fans who are complaining. The NPPL doesnt need to apoligize.
lanche4lyf3 is offline  
Old 10-30-2006, 08:37 PM #15
demetrid
Paintball Madness
 
demetrid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
considering that they are playing for money that the players of both teams need, I don't think you can just "get over it". The NPPL should at least release a statement of some sort.
__________________
Follow my music @:
www.liquistyle.com
demetrid is offline  
Old 10-30-2006, 08:46 PM #16
fattyMcCheese36
I'm not fat.
 
fattyMcCheese36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: chicago
fattyMcCheese36 is a Paintball photographer
Quote:
Originally Posted by lanche4lyf3 View Post
They wont redetermine the winner just because joy is mad that they lost. That was the right call by the ref. Why should the NPPL say they were wrong when the joy player over shot BC. Get over it. JOY LOST DYNASTY WON, everyone needs to shut the **** up, especially if they werent there to see it, you cant tell what happened by the videos. Let Idris handle it with the NPPL, the joy fans need to stay out of it. Nothing against joy, but i am tired of seeing these threads on pbnation and where ever i go. Let the bigwigs figure it out, there is a slim chance that the call will be reversed but let Joy and the NPPL figure it out. I dont think the NPPL should admit to a wrong call, especially when it is mostly the fans who are complaining. The NPPL doesnt need to apoligize.
If you were a Joy fan I bet you'd be in this thread arguing about it, too.
__________________


Use my karmaloop rep code for 20% off : ZD43513
UNIVERSITY OF KANSAS

fattyMcCheese36 is offline  
Old 10-30-2006, 09:07 PM #17
theCOMEBACK
STFU PLZ
 
theCOMEBACK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Francisco
theCOMEBACK is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lanche4lyf3 View Post
They wont redetermine the winner just because joy is mad that they lost. That was the right call by the ref. Why should the NPPL say they were wrong when the joy player over shot BC. Get over it. JOY LOST DYNASTY WON, everyone needs to shut the **** up, especially if they werent there to see it, you cant tell what happened by the videos. Let Idris handle it with the NPPL, the joy fans need to stay out of it. Nothing against joy, but i am tired of seeing these threads on pbnation and where ever i go. Let the bigwigs figure it out, there is a slim chance that the call will be reversed but let Joy and the NPPL figure it out. I dont think the NPPL should admit to a wrong call, especially when it is mostly the fans who are complaining. The NPPL doesnt need to apoligize.
I dont think they should redetermie the winner and I apologize if my post implies I think they should. I do however feel that the NPPL owes JD and the viewing public a satisfactory explaination. Nothing I have heard from Dan Perez or any other official within the NPPL has done so yet.

I also DO NOT think that we should shut up and get over it and just let the 'big wigs' figure it out. The NPPL owes it to the paintball community to investigate what really happened and acknowlege that a bad call was made and that bad call cost JD the title for that event. At the VERY least they owe Joy the common courtesey of hearing them out.

And lastly (and as if it matters) that sunday was the first day I had ever seen Joy play a match (OMG I was there???) and I have friends who play on Dynasty so I am not a fanboy by any means.
__________________
STOP POSTING
theCOMEBACK is offline  
Old 10-30-2006, 09:54 PM #18
lanche4lyf3
W I C K E D M E D I A
 
lanche4lyf3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Rhode Island
But whose to say it was a bad call? Were you on the field when it happened? no. so how can you call it a bad call if you didnt see it up close. I do agree that the nppl should release a statement. But my question is, who are you to say it was a bad call? You werent on the field where the ref was standing. He could have saw something totally different from what the cameras saw, maybe thats how they made the call, so how would that make it a bad call? I am not a fan of either teams btw.
lanche4lyf3 is offline  
Old 10-30-2006, 10:38 PM #19
*Endo*21
ruoy gnikcuf diputs
 
*Endo*21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: *503* PDX
Quote:
Originally Posted by lanche4lyf3 View Post
i am sorry but you guys need to get over it, it was a tough call by the refs, it is a very hard job to be a ref. Layoff, Joy lost, Dynasty Won. Let is go. Focus on 07. And Endo you need a ****ing life.
Hey man Im just tryin to do some good for Joy...considering that call was crap ya know. I mean only the most ignorant of ignorant consider that call to be a good one now adays.

Im just trying to help out Magued. And he says he's getting some use out of it. So maybe you need to get a life if you're just gonna complain and clog up this thread, because I may need the space, point being that I made this so it is just easy to use so people can educate themselves.




That said
GTFO and go **** yourself
__________________
HGAY
I got raped...but I was on top
S.I
*Endo*21 is offline  
Old 10-31-2006, 12:27 PM #20
theCOMEBACK
STFU PLZ
 
theCOMEBACK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Francisco
theCOMEBACK is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by lanche4lyf3 View Post
But whose to say it was a bad call? Were you on the field when it happened? no. so how can you call it a bad call if you didnt see it up close. I do agree that the nppl should release a statement. But my question is, who are you to say it was a bad call? You werent on the field where the ref was standing. He could have saw something totally different from what the cameras saw, maybe thats how they made the call, so how would that make it a bad call? I am not a fan of either teams btw.
The official call by Dan Perez was a bad call. Read the threads, watch the videos and look at the photographic evidence. It was a bull**** call.

I was there and I did see what happened.
__________________
STOP POSTING
theCOMEBACK is offline  
Old 10-31-2006, 01:14 PM #21
Gwadaman
Fragile
 
Gwadaman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Toulouse
Quote:
Originally Posted by lanche4lyf3 View Post
But whose to say it was a bad call? Were you on the field when it happened? no. so how can you call it a bad call if you didnt see it up close. I do agree that the nppl should release a statement. But my question is, who are you to say it was a bad call? You werent on the field where the ref was standing. He could have saw something totally different from what the cameras saw, maybe thats how they made the call, so how would that make it a bad call? I am not a fan of either teams btw.
The rulebook says it was a bad call. Dan Perez let BC hung up the flag because Scandal got a 3 for 1. OK now as you can read on the rulebook:

"20.02 Elimination of Last Player. If the last player on a team is found to have been
playing on with an obvious hit or wiping then the other team will automatically be awarded the pull
and the hang."

Sebban was the last player, not Scandal. So the rulebook says: this is a bad call.

And I won't argue on Perez lies regarding Scandal armband. I admit this can happen to a ref, despite billions of pictures and tons of video show that Scandal still had his armband at the end of the game. (You're right a vid can't catch everything on a field, but a vid can't lie.)

I don't know guys if you are fond of football. A few days ago Sepp Blatter, FIFA chairman, said that Italia won his quarter final against Australia on a bad call made by the main ref. He apologized for this.

Italia is still World Champion. But for australian peeps, I think it's fine to know that even the FIFA chairman admit that it was a bad call and officially apologized for this.

Last edited by Gwadaman : 10-31-2006 at 01:17 PM.
Gwadaman is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump