Final Reponse to the OC event issue, Magued please read! - PbNation
Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

 
Archived Thread - Cannot Edit  
Old 10-25-2006, 03:41 AM #1
killingmachine4life
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Final Reponse to the OC event issue, Magued please read!

I saw your post and just wanted to make another one to kinda push your opinion a little more

In the just released PBStar video

at 9:29-10:00

This is where it all happens.

JD 1 who bunkers fraige, dives in after shooting fraige, ref pulls fraige FAILS to pull the JD player, BC Bunkers JD lights up BC.

Ref says " YOU ARE BOTH GONE!!!" this right thier was the call by the reff.

BC's arm band is removed.

2nd JD player comes around few seconds after BC's armband has been removed and GETS SHOT BY BC after his armband was removed!

As well he shoots both fraige and bc but thats because he didnt know what was going on. BC shot back making him shoot more but BC still shot after achnowledging and hearing a reff say he was out.

Point this out because again you guys won OC hands down.
killingmachine4life is offline  
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 10-25-2006, 09:35 AM #2
themaxx-captain
-= EZPaintball.com =-
 
themaxx-captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Memphis, TN
themaxx-captain is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
themaxx-captain supports Cereal Killerz 2
themaxx-captain owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
Absolutely agreed, Why was nothing made of the Dynasty players refusing to leave the field in a timely manner. Not only did Fraige not leave the field, but he grabbed the final live Joy player and tried to prevent him from running through for the flag... then the ref bear hugs the Joy player.

So, we've got 2 Dynasty players refusing to leave the field... one Dynasty player grabs a Joy player in effort to interfere/prevent actions on the field, one Dynasty player without his armband shoots the live Joy Division player.

This needs to be reviewed by the rules committee and the correct decision needs to be made.
themaxx-captain is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 09:38 AM #3
The_Tank
Playing in Paradise
 
The_Tank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Graz, Austria
I predict the NPPL will do nothing about this, as it would be to hard to admit that you actually did something wrong. Yes it would show real greatness, but it is always easier to just stick with it and sit it out...
Only problem is that having 2 major leagues teams can actually decide what to play... and the NPPL just lost lots of its reputation. I just hope that through this some major sponsors will withdraw if this does not get set straight.
__________________
El rápido Tanque

Team Paradise Connection
visit: Paintball Paradise

proud Member of Seniorenclub-Paintball
The_Tank is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 09:50 AM #4
JKeller
Right on
 
JKeller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Knoxville, TN
Maybe this is crap is what it will take for some semblance of unification to occur. I don't know how that would go with the high rollers in the paintball world, but it would help legitimize our sport.
__________________


♠ Tricked Dust-Ninja '03 Rat Impulse w/WAS F/S♠

- No one here gets out alive - Jim Morrison

►Official Baltimore Trauma Fan #737
"Originally posted by pbstar1990: ...this is the first ever intelligent post I have ever seen in a thread on pbnation. It's because of people like this, the world makes forward progress... thank you for the first ever intelligent post on the nation!"

JOY WAS ROBBED
JKeller is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 11:21 AM #5
killingmachine4life
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
well again the point im making is

BC was allowed to hang the flag *even though in the video you see the refs are saying NO several times to him*

He hanged it AFTER he was eliminated. The JD player came in shooting and in the confusion shot everyone.

Then BC shot back making Sebban shoot more in response.

Fraige chased down the last JD player and followed them back then had to be removed by another referree.

So penatlys for Dynasty:
- Playing on
- Not leaving the field in a timely manner
- Shooting after being eliminated

JD:
- Overshooting? *who doesnt*

This video confirms everything Magued said and it is just sad to watch.

However I think the call was made more out of confusion and wanting to give an answer because BC was being a dick about it and you dont see any JD team member doing that.
killingmachine4life is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 11:33 AM #6
Musashi20
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Unfair...

I think some of you are being very unfair to Dynasty. If you watch the video it all starts with Fraige hitting the Joy back center. This player supposedly wipes. Also in the NPPL rulebook it says that the first ref is the player. As in, if you feel you're hit and know you are hit then call yourself out. When the joy player trades with Fraige how come he continues to dive into the snake? Lets say for arguments sake that he dove in because of running momentum. Should he not have asked for a check? Plus he is obviously hit, why should he be playing on? I believe that is why BC was allowed to keep playing even after armband because another ref said that the joy player in the snake shot him and that should not have been allowed. I know that armband removal is final but it just comes down to this: Everyone cheated in that game or bent the rules lets say. So enough of the statements like "Joy won that", or Dynasty sucks etc. etc. Neither of these statements are true. It is all speculation and educated guesses. Also, as you can see many support Dynasty after seeing the video and many support Joy so it's a very contraversial subject. How about we just say that both are good teams instead of what has been going on. Just my opinion.
Musashi20 is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 11:39 AM #7
Michaud12 (Banned)
3 bans and still kicking
 
Michaud12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Dynasty didnt do anything wrong. nether team did anything wrong,
Michaud12 is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 11:53 AM #8
FullMetalJester
NU Coach / Gun Tech
 
FullMetalJester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: New England
 has been a member for 10 years
FullMetalJester plays in the PSP
FullMetalJester is an NCPA player
FullMetalJester plays in the APPA D4 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musashi20
I think some of you are being very unfair to Dynasty. If you watch the video it all starts with Fraige hitting the Joy back center. This player supposedly wipes. Also in the NPPL rulebook it says that the first ref is the player. As in, if you feel you're hit and know you are hit then call yourself out. When the joy player trades with Fraige how come he continues to dive into the snake? Lets say for arguments sake that he dove in because of running momentum. Should he not have asked for a check? Plus he is obviously hit, why should he be playing on? I believe that is why BC was allowed to keep playing even after armband because another ref said that the joy player in the snake shot him and that should not have been allowed. I know that armband removal is final but it just comes down to this: Everyone cheated in that game or bent the rules lets say. So enough of the statements like "Joy won that", or Dynasty sucks etc. etc. Neither of these statements are true. It is all speculation and educated guesses. Also, as you can see many support Dynasty after seeing the video and many support Joy so it's a very contraversial subject. How about we just say that both are good teams instead of what has been going on. Just my opinion.
because you dont call yourself out after somebody shoots you after the fact. This is normal, it happens alot in bunkering situations, the bunkerer will often get some paint on the tail end of his run through from the bunkeree, and those hits do not count.
FullMetalJester is online now  
Old 10-25-2006, 12:43 PM #9
killingmachine4life
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
^ true

Not to mention he got hit on the dive

THE FACT IS, HE WAS NOT PULLED

Simple as that, thier is not what if's how it coulda happened.

This is how it DID happen, he made the snake, BC bunekred got light up, ref says your both out.

Gave over.

BC Shot after words also, he broke the rules.
killingmachine4life is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 02:22 PM #10
Exit Wounds
doesn't play paintball.
 
Exit Wounds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musashi20
Also in the NPPL rulebook it says that the first ref is the player. As in, if you feel you're hit and know you are hit then call yourself out.
True, but nearly useless. Making a call based on that bit of rules is like attempting to govern based on a constitution's preambulatory statements as if they we're written law. It leaves too much room for error and no way to account for it. There is no fair way for the player to have to regulate himself. That's what the refs are for, and that's why players have armbands.

You can suggest that the Joy player would have been out much earlier and that's why the Dynasty player was retroactively allowed to play on, but you would be wrong. I've never heard of a "dead" player being allowed to re-enter the game because his opponent had wiped first. It is the ref's responsibility to determine the victim's status before pulling the armband, and that conclusion is final.

Allowing a player to play without an armband is unacceptable, period. This is why Perez claimed to have issued the 3-for-1, which is ironic because Dynasty should have suffered for that exact reason.

Perhaps the refs did try their best, and its just too hard to officiate in the chaos on the field. If that's the case, then in my opinion using video replay to settle calls (at least for the semis and finals) is the only solution.
__________________
Feedback

Last edited by Exit Wounds : 10-25-2006 at 02:24 PM.
Exit Wounds is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 03:09 PM #11
themaxx-captain
-= EZPaintball.com =-
 
themaxx-captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Memphis, TN
themaxx-captain is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
themaxx-captain supports Cereal Killerz 2
themaxx-captain owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
FullMetalJester --
First off, I does not appear that the Joy player wipes because the ref was ALL OVER HIM in his bunker for a good 15 seconds... and he goes over again and checks for another 5 seconds before calling him clean.

Second, I posted frame captures from the PBFilms video where the first Joy player shoots Fraige... Fraige turns and shoots him in the shoulder.. and then the player dives in. So, Joy player and Fraige did not trade... Joy shot Fraige and Fraige spun from shooting at the Joy center player to shoot him in the shoulder.

Third, it is contested that Joy Center player shot Cole in the wrist as he dove into the snake... and then Cole shot the Joy Snake Player.. as the Joy snake player shoots Cole in chest and hopper.

Fourth, Dynasty refuses to leave the field... Fraige, as a dead player, grabs the last live player and interferes with his progress down the field. Cole also shoots the last live Joy player, after he had his armband removed from the mutual elimination with the joy snake player.
themaxx-captain is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 03:20 PM #12
youknowit546
drink beer, **** *****es
 
youknowit546's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: SE TX
If NPPL overturned the call on the field and awarded Joy with the Event win, it would possibly put Dynasty in second for the year. That would make Dynasty super mad because they just lost tons of money within one press release.

But Dynasty would not boycott the NPPL. Many members of Dynasty have said before that Xball is almost not worth their time. They would not give up something they have won countless times before just because of one call.

NPPL won't overturn it though. That would show that they do not trust the refs on the field and would show an overall weakness in their refs. That would open the floodgates for next, with tons of arguements over silly calls.

From what I have seen in the video....J1 shoots Fraige and dives into the snake. Cole bunkers J1. It should be where J1 and Fraige are both out. J2 goes to run down the field, shoots Cole and tries to grab the flag. Cole should be out because he was clearly shot first. Yet the ref and Fraige stop J2 from pulling the flag.
*What were Fraige and Cole doing still on the field?*
I would have given Dynasty a 1 for 1, their players weren't leaving the field in a timely manner. That would give Joy the pull and the hang. BUT I would also award a 1 for 1 to Joy for overshooting. That should give both teams the pull and hang....which would end up with a series of 1 on 1's
__________________
LSU
MDT
2008 Honda CBR1K

"They pursued them. However one of them escaped while the other turned into a goat," Kwara state police spokesman Tunde Mohammed.
youknowit546 is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 03:23 PM #13
Shockedimpy
SuperSteve
 
Shockedimpy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Massachusetts
 has been a member for 10 years
Would it be possible to reverse a call this late? The NPPL should REALLY look into this situation, there is plenty of video and pictures to prove Joy as the victor. Wouldn't it be something if they did indeed reverse it and Joy won.
__________________
My Feedback:
(3) Postitive (0) Negative
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...hreadid=841909
Shockedimpy is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 03:30 PM #14
JKeller
Right on
 
JKeller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Knoxville, TN
I doubt the NPPL would ever overturn a call regardless of how much evidence there was to the contrary. The way they see it, they are already getting enough bad press and I would say they don't want to add weakness or uncertainty on their part to the mix.
__________________


♠ Tricked Dust-Ninja '03 Rat Impulse w/WAS F/S♠

- No one here gets out alive - Jim Morrison

►Official Baltimore Trauma Fan #737
"Originally posted by pbstar1990: ...this is the first ever intelligent post I have ever seen in a thread on pbnation. It's because of people like this, the world makes forward progress... thank you for the first ever intelligent post on the nation!"

JOY WAS ROBBED
JKeller is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 03:35 PM #15
Evosniper05
 
 
Evosniper05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Georgia
im quite sure its to late. however you also have to remember....you have what...7 refs i think? trying to control and moniter 14 very aggressive players on a pretty big field. its not easy....especially when you have 4 players within a couple of inches from each other.

people say "well why didnt dynasty leave the field?"

have you ever thought you should be alive when you werent? im sure thats what bc thought...fraigie was right beside his team mate who was pleading his case in the middle of a game. i wouldnt of left....and im quite sure most, if not all of you, would have tried to plead that you were still alive as well.

then comes the topic of "well bc shot sebban". think about it guys...it was for a lot of money, and you just lost the game. then someone comes running up and puts 15-20 balls on you for no reason because you're already out....would you stand there and take it? i highly doubt it.from the video i watched, i didnt see fraige try to stop sebban
Evosniper05 is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 03:49 PM #16
themaxx-captain
-= EZPaintball.com =-
 
themaxx-captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Memphis, TN
themaxx-captain is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
themaxx-captain supports Cereal Killerz 2
themaxx-captain owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
I don't know what video you watched.. but Fraige grabs Sebban by the jersey sleeve and slows him down enough for the Ref to run up and bear hug Sebban. It's on the PBFilms video and the Webcast video.

Not only did Fraige not leave the field, but he walked 6 or 7 feet back down the snake to where the action with Joy Snake and Brian Cole took place... then he was just standing there as Sebban made his run through. Lastly, he chases Sebban and grabs his sleeve until the ref grabs Sebban. THERE WAS PLENTY OF TIME FOR FRAIGE TO LEAVE THE FIELD.

Last edited by themaxx-captain : 10-25-2006 at 03:51 PM.
themaxx-captain is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 04:01 PM #17
Aight
GET THE **** OUT
 
Aight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Freddy Beach
 has been a member for 10 years
If you watched the vid then you'd have seen that the Joy player who moves in to Bunker Alex is shot going in and again by Fraige for a mutual. He played on, the seccond guy traded with BC. Everyone's gone. There is some arguing, but this is the reason that there are field ultimates and an allowance for players to dsipute calls. The man who plays on winds up being doled his deserved penalty and as a result Brian gets to hang the flag.

Even if you don't agree with the call, or think I have it twisted, or whatever you're better served by letting it go. No ammount of crying by you fan boys or Mauged will change things. It'll be a cold day in hell before any series proclaims the inefficiency of it's officiators by reversing the outcome of an event and series after the fact.
__________________
FUEL
www.fuelpaintball.com
hate/hate/hate/hate/hate/hate/hate/hate/hate

RIP friday_juice 04/11/03 - 12/09/04 So misunderstood. He was not the first casualty of Xball...he won't be the last.
Aight is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 04:09 PM #18
SD-G-force
what's paintball again?
 
SD-G-force's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
SD-G-force has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
in the video it looks like sebban pushes through alex, isnt there no physical contact allowed?
__________________
Ron Paul 2012
SD-G-force is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 04:09 PM #19
themaxx-captain
-= EZPaintball.com =-
 
themaxx-captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Memphis, TN
themaxx-captain is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
themaxx-captain supports Cereal Killerz 2
themaxx-captain owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
The video evidence, the photo evidence, the innate reaction from the nearest ref, and the audio from the game all DISAGREE with what you just stated. Go check out the frame captures that I took from the PBFilms video and its obvious that the first Joy Player was shot by Fraige after Fraige had been shot.

My point is not to change the call that already happened. My point is not to make the NPPL undermine the confidence in the reffing crew by announcing they made a mistake in the ruling. My point IS to put the honus on the NPPL to do whatever it takes to make the Pro Division the best officiated paintball competition in existance. They are making plenty of money off the fans and teams, its a shame they can't put proper officiating on the field... proper technology to aid the officials.. and better methods for dealing with controversies.

There were three Pro incidents that I can quickly think of:
1) At huntington Beach, XSV v. Rage... controversy over Troll being shot 3 times during the match
2) At San Diego, NE Hurricanes beat Ironmen with 6 alive... the last player steps beyond the endline while running to the flag after bunkering the last player and is called out by the rear ref. According to the rules, once the last opposing player is eliminated, the player going for the flag is the "flag-carrier" and cannot be called out for crossing the endline at either end. The rules commitee agreed that the Rear Ref blew this call... interesting side note, the "phantom elimination" of that Hurricane player gave the Ironmen the 3 points needed to advance to Sunday.
3) At OC, Dynasty v. Joy in Game 3 of finals.... enough said.
themaxx-captain is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 10:09 PM #20
Arsenic17
 
 
Arsenic17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Huntington Beach
Arsenic17 is a Supporting Member
hmm it seems like im going back and fowarth on who won. Theres another picture in another thread that show the jd player being shot when hes running to bunker fraige though, i think its in the dynasty forum.
Arsenic17 is offline  
Old 10-25-2006, 11:38 PM #21
JD9940
Forever an AA's Fan
 
JD9940's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SoCal
JD9940 supports Cereal Killerz 2
JD9940 owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
JD9940 is reppin' sidebar 4 life
JD9940 plays in the APPA D4 division
JD9940 supports DLX Technology
THIS is what I belive happened.
There is also a key so I can better explain what happened IMO
JD1= Joy player that bunkered Fragie
JD2= Other remaining Joy player (Sebban I believe)

BC- Brian Cole (duh)
AF -Alex Fragie (tricky huh?)
Here we go:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


Since JD1 was shot by Fraige when he attempted to bunker him, the INITIAL call was to leave JD1 in. However I belive that call was overturned when the Judges discussed the part of the game. Since JD1 probably felt the hits, and continued to play and eventually shoot BC, the judges deemed it necessary to penalize JD1.

BC did have his armband pulled after jumping into the snake, but I think the reffs overturned that call along with the call to deem JD1 "clean" while he was CLEARLY out after bunkering AF.
So after reviewing the play (lol NFL referee quote) the NPPL referees decided to call JD1 out, AF out, BC clean, and JD2 clean.

But since JD1 was ruled out after review/conference and continued to shoot his gun, the 3-for-1 was assessed and the pull and hang awarded to Dynasty


I am a Dynasty fan, but I wrote this as a partial paintball fan trying to get to the bottom of this mess.
And I as said this a WHOLE bunch of times earlier this is just my opinion, and I am still entitled to that.
__________________
GORGEOUS Luxe FS/T


Action Star Games
JD9940 is offline  
 




Posting Rules
Forum Jump