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Old 10-24-2006, 10:49 PM #64
sames89305 (Banned)
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Nice armband while hanging the flag.
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Old 10-24-2006, 11:03 PM #65
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So, I saw that video from PBFilms... the player who runs down the snake gets shot in the shoulder at the same time he shoots Fraige or even after he shoots him but definately before he dives into the snake... watch his inside shoulder at the 3:01 to 3:03 mark... you will see the paint flare off his inside shoulder, and when he dives and begins to crawl... you will see the mark left on his shoulder.




THIS is where the Dan Perez story breaks down though... even if the Joy player was hit after he shot Fraige, the ref didn't make an effort to pull the JD player's armband. As Cole comes over the snake... you see the Joy player miss under Cole's arm and the paint explodes on the ground by Cole's right knee.. then he shoots Cole's hopper twice on the tape side.

Anyways, in the meeting with Cole and Magued, Perez says that the first JD player was hit prior to bunkering Fraige (which is seen in the PBFilms video, but it appears that he was hit after bunkering Fraige but before he dives), yet the ref at the snake didn't make the call and pulled the band only on Fraige. THEN, the JD player exchanges with Cole and they deem the JD exchange as overshooting with malicious intent after he was dead.

My question is that I never saw a moment where the first JD player acknowledge that he was indeed hit, which is the grounds for the 3for1 penalty.. Second, the last JD player had no bearing on the call except to make the situation worse by shooting BC after BC was eliminated, was unable see who was still alive because he was blinded to the action by the bunkers as he approached, so he gave some to both Dynasty players.




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Old 10-24-2006, 11:08 PM #66
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Okay just throwin this out there. Who here has actually reffed because if you want to bag on the refs first you go and ref a tournament
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Old 10-24-2006, 11:12 PM #67
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I have.

The reason for the rule forcing eliminated players to leave the field of play immediately after being eliminated is to avoid situations where the live players don't know who is out or not. With Fraige and Cole refusing to leave after their armbands were pulled, they forced the last Joy player into having to decide, in a split second, if the Dynasty players who are on the field are still live or eliminated. Since that split second decision means the difference between 1st and 2nd, $25k and $10k, all or nothing, who can blame him for putting paint on Dynasty players who are on the field of play? Were the refs making any attempt to get the eliminated Dynasty players off the field?

I am sickened by what the NPPL has done. This robs our sport of some of its integrity. Do I think the refs purposefully colluded with Dynasty to give them the win? No, but I don't say it with confidence.

Joy, you guys just made yourselves one more fan with how you've conducted yourselves thus far.

I plan on making a T-shirt for NPPL in HB next year that reads: Joy was robbed.
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Old 10-24-2006, 11:15 PM #68
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Originally Posted by themaxx-captain
My question is that I never saw a moment where the first JD player acknowledge that he was indeed hit, which is the grounds for the 3for1 penalty.. Second, the last JD player had no bearing on the call except to make the situation worse by shooting BC after BC was eliminated, was unable see who was still alive because he was blinded to the action by the bunkers as he approached, so he gave some to both Dynasty players.
it looks to me like he got shot in the pack and with his movement it would be more like an unobvious hit which would just be a elimation(sp) and then alex would not be elimated(sp)
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Old 10-24-2006, 11:26 PM #69
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I have.

The reason for the rule forcing eliminated players to leave the field of play immediately after being eliminated is to avoid situations where the live players don't know who is out or not. With Fraige and Cole refusing to leave after their armbands were pulled, they forced the last Joy player into having to decide, in a split second, if the Dynasty players who are on the field are still live or eliminated. Since that split second decision means the difference between 1st and 2nd, $25k and $10k, all or nothing, who can blame him for putting paint on Dynasty players who are on the field of play? Were the refs making any attempt to get the eliminated Dynasty players off the field?

I am sickened by what the NPPL has done. This robs our sport of some of its integrity. Do I think the refs purposefully colluded with Dynasty to give them the win? No, but I don't say it with confidence.

Joy, you guys just made yourselves one more fan with how you've conducted yourselves thus far.

I plan on making a T-shirt for NPPL in HB next year that reads: Joy was robbed.

I agree. The exchange between the JD player and Fraige would typically be called a 1 for 1. The ref doesn't pull the JD player though (and everyone plays until the ref pulls them these days unless they take a shot to the face or something), then BC bunkers the snake guy and gets shot by Sebban. The refs didn't clarify BC and Fraige's status (were they in or out?). Anyone else would have done the same thing as Sebban.
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Old 10-24-2006, 11:36 PM #70
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I emailed Camille voicing that i thought the call was completely wrong and why, and that it should be reviewed. she replied with:
Dan Perez made the right decision. The Joy Division player was shooting with malicious intent - that alone is a 3 for 1. When there are not enough players alive to assess a 3 for 1, points are assessed instead.

First off, that is not what Dan Perez said in his statement, as it can be seen on www.nppl.tv. Second, even if it was what he said, in the rule book all it has under a 3 for 1 penalty is,
"(1) Playing on. Player fires marker after acknowledging elimination.
(2) Wiping. Player deliberatly removes paint in order to avoid elimiation."

I replied telling her that, along with a lot of other crap inluding how neither of the JD players' arm bands were removed until BC began to run to get the flag, so neither JD player shot after acknowleding their elimination. I also told her how both Dynasty players shot after their arm bands were removed, including reference to pictures. Anyways, i can't wait to see what she has to say now... I wonder if JD can sue for something like this with the abundance of evidence that is out there, since they potentially lost $15k because of it...

I should also mention that I believe it should have been a one for one. The reason I don't think they should just give the win to JD is because it is evident from pictures that Scandel did play on in the snake, even though his arm band wasn't yet removed.
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Old 10-25-2006, 12:21 AM #71
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Originally Posted by Bunkd
your player excessively overshot Brian cole, and your snake player played on.

all seen here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRZZJsZVmbo
First off, in this Lucky video, you can hear the ref #28 (first ref who ran in to the mess of Scandal and BC in snake-3, right after BC diving into it) yell "both of you are out," meaning scandal and BC. Listen about 6:30 into the video. Then he proceeds to take off BC's armband, and I thought Scandal's as well. This makes Sebban the only person left alive, but since neither BC or Fraige left the field in an appropriate manner, Sebban came around gun up. Not only does Sebban shoot BC, BC shoots back. Somehow penalty put on Joy, nothing on dynasty. Poor decision making on NPPL reffing crew if you ask me.

Secondly, I would love to see Dan Perez's official statement...


and as for Camille's response to mla, that seems a little biased... somehow I agree with whoever stated that WDP should withdraw their sponsorship from NPPL. kinda.

one positive thing did come from this fiasco, however. It just goes to show that Franchise Telford still can't win a series, no matter how much talent he brings in with a high cash flow.
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Old 10-25-2006, 01:52 AM #72
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Originally Posted by TzeentchianGod
I have.

The reason for the rule forcing eliminated players to leave the field of play immediately after being eliminated is to avoid situations where the live players don't know who is out or not. With Fraige and Cole refusing to leave after their armbands were pulled, they forced the last Joy player into having to decide, in a split second, if the Dynasty players who are on the field are still live or eliminated. Since that split second decision means the difference between 1st and 2nd, $25k and $10k, all or nothing, who can blame him for putting paint on Dynasty players who are on the field of play? Were the refs making any attempt to get the eliminated Dynasty players off the field?

I am sickened by what the NPPL has done. This robs our sport of some of its integrity. Do I think the refs purposefully colluded with Dynasty to give them the win? No, but I don't say it with confidence.

Joy, you guys just made yourselves one more fan with how you've conducted yourselves thus far.

I plan on making a T-shirt for NPPL in HB next year that reads: Joy was robbed.

Maybe you should make a vid along with that shirt And here is a suggestion for the title: FEEL THE JOY!



P.S makeing that shirt: "Joy was robbed"
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Old 10-25-2006, 02:39 AM #73
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Old 10-25-2006, 03:14 AM #74
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after looking at the lucky video you have definitive prove what happened... you can even see that the first ref who started running (who all claim wanted to pull scandal) was running to check as scandal had paint on his barrel from the bunker....


if camile baker continues the "dan perez made the right decission" thing she will lose all credibility and the league will turn into a joke. an official nppl statement is overdue to this clearly bad decission making.

I actually wanted to fly to the US to play HB next year, but I think we might save the cash and play a PSP event.
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Old 10-25-2006, 04:19 AM #75
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Camille = Nur noch verwendbar als Bettmatratze.....Sorry they definitly turned this to a joke right now.

Im a big Joy Fan and also like Dynasty but this is definitly the worst situation right now.

Could i say that Dan Perez is the Steve Morris or Ullrich Stähr in Paintball ?
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Old 10-25-2006, 07:44 AM #76
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Magued:
Wishing Stockholm Joy good luck in the team's appeal. You are right, it is a judging issue and this needs to be addressed & corrected by the leagues. It is the responsiblity of the NPPL & PSP to ensure that these situations are handled better. I wrote recently, that I feel it is time for the leagues to monitor the games in a better fashion such as a larger amount of, and more sophisicated cameras throughout the field sidelines, an instant replay system, and 1 player, 1 referee (more if necessary).

You and the guys are #1 in our hearts....I hope the final decision does get overturned in your favor.....Best regards, Marisa
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Old 10-25-2006, 09:03 AM #77
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If I was a pro player I would consider focusing on the PSP at this point, because the NPPL has shown no ability to fairly judge events. And even if the OC event is the only example of such inability, it's a glaring mistake regardless. I simply cannot believe the conclusion these refs came to. Also, consider this point: The NPPL is widely considered as the premier paintball-league not only in the US, but in the world. WHY DO THE CAMERA ANGLES AND VIDEO QUALITY SUCK SO BADLY compared to Millennium events? (I'm certainly not undermining the Millennium series or European teams, in fact, I enjoyed watching the Millennium series this year more than the NPPL) Rock on Joy
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Last edited by JKeller : 10-25-2006 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 10-25-2006, 09:40 AM #78
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Alright guys, I have a large amount of free space on the internet... I say we gather up the various clips, photos, etc and I'll create a site to lay out the facts of what happened. We have so many different threads about the same thing but not all have the same photos, video, etc.


Then, we can just point Camille, Dan, Magued to the site... where all the info will be gathered into one place.
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Old 10-25-2006, 09:55 AM #79
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Originally Posted by themaxx-captain
Alright guys, I have a large amount of free space on the internet... I say we gather up the various clips, photos, etc and I'll create a site to lay out the facts of what happened. We have so many different threads about the same thing but not all have the same photos, video, etc.


Then, we can just point Camille, Dan, Magued to the site... where all the info will be gathered into one place.
Not a bad idea at all
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Old 10-25-2006, 10:12 AM #80
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Originally Posted by themaxx-captain
Alright guys, I have a large amount of free space on the internet... I say we gather up the various clips, photos, etc and I'll create a site to lay out the facts of what happened. We have so many different threads about the same thing but not all have the same photos, video, etc.


Then, we can just point Camille, Dan, Magued to the site... where all the info will be gathered into one place.
That's a great idea man. Good to see another TN baller here on the forums, as well. Any surprise that we think alike? Haha let me know if you need help compiling any info/pics for this site and I will do what I can between classes.
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Old 10-25-2006, 11:21 AM #81
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Originally Posted by dont touch the hair
First off, in this Lucky video, you can hear the ref #28 (first ref who ran in to the mess of Scandal and BC in snake-3, right after BC diving into it) yell "both of you are out," meaning scandal and BC. Listen about 6:30 into the video. Then he proceeds to take off BC's armband, and I thought Scandal's as well.
ref 28 watched Alex get bunkered. If he thought Alex got Scandal as he ran by, he wouldnt have pulled BC, because he would have thought that SCandal was out and couldnt have traded out with BC.

I think that hit on Scandals shoulder is from Alex shooting him well after he was out. Look at some of the pics and see how far he tracks the Joy player as he runs by
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Old 10-25-2006, 12:26 PM #82
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the ref in front of scandal only pulled him after BC jumped over. and if scandal did not put paint on on BC, It had to sebban. I believe someone stated this earlier in the thread. Even if you agree that BC, and scandal traded out. Joy you boys still have one body alive. Hence we know the outcome. You was robbed, and raped!
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Old 10-25-2006, 01:35 PM #83
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sorry about that joy division. that ref made a ****in bull **** call.
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Old 10-25-2006, 01:42 PM #84
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that video gave me flashbacks to the superbowl hahaha
The win was Joys
lol so true
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