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Old 07-16-2006, 02:35 PM #1
MondoMor
 
 
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Lightbulb Rex Type-R Information and Warnings

(Thread title shamelessly stolen from Icedrelm)


I've broken my Type-R down into its components and figured I'd relay what I found to the 'nation. I've also included information from this and other threads that helpful folks have posted.

Summary:
Barrel Threads: Autococker
Power: 9V battery
Stock Regulators: bottomline reg and Low Pressure Regulator (LPR).
Stock Barrel: .693

The manual is actually pretty good. There's some "Engrish" in it, but in general it does a good job of describing the Type-R and how to maintain it. Read the Fine Manual.


Similarities to Other Markers:

Diablo Wrath:

Judging by pictures of a disassembled Diablo Wrath, the Type-R and Wrath have essentially identical LPRs, valve pins and grip frames (obviously the trigger guard on the Wrath is frame is different). So keep your eyes in the Diablo forum for news on grips, settings, and other information. A lot of it will apply to the Type-R.

Check out the Wrath FAQ.

Odyssey O2:

The grip frame and bottomline reg pictures in this thread should look familiar to a Type-R owner. Looks like a similar solenoid as well.


Some more speculation about the Rex Type-R's origins.




Mechanical:

This marker is almost entirely Metric, down to the pneumatic fittings. Put away your SAE (1/8", 1/16", etc.) tools, and get or buy a set of Metric ones (3mm, 2.5mm, etc.). This INCLUDES the cap screws holding the bottom line rail to the grip frame. The adjusters on the LPR and bottomline reg seem to need SAE Hex wrenches, though. I don't have anything to measure threads on something that big.

For whatever reason, the cap screw holding the ASA to the body is SAE. It's 1/4-28 threads and requires a 3/16" Allen key. This may have been a compromise to allow common aftermarket ASAs (15 degree, etc) to be used easily.

The trigger is very floppy and has lots of side-to-side movement. The pivot pin is 3mm diameter. Take apart enough old CD-Rom drives, and you'll likely find plenty of 3mm washers in various thicknesses to stack on either side of the trigger to make it tighter. The trigger pin is a beast to get out - you'll need a press and a mandrel smaller than 3mm.



Pneumatics:

The pneumatic fittings between the LPR, solenoid and ram are 5mm. You'll want to find "M5" fittings.

The LPR and Ram fittings have a little sleeve that must be unscrewed from around the hose before the hose can be pulled off the fittings. This is kind of a nice touch, which will tend to keep them from popping off. The manual says to unscrew the fitting from the Ram when pulling out the Ram, and that is indeed the best way.

I don't see any built-in QEV in the ram cap, so if you'd like to add a QEV to speed things up, you'll have to do some engineering.

I have an SMC QEV with M5 threads, but it's huge. The base part number is AQ1500. Beware: SMC's website seems to be Internet Explorer only. :/

The Wrath Ram cap includes a QEV, but it's threaded into the body and not retained by a pin like the Type-R. With some luck and tools, it MIGHT be able to be modified to fit, but it's certainly not a "drop-in" replacement.



Electronics:

A scenario Dreams Dragun TES T-board is almost a drop-in replacement for the stock board. The wiring (including eye wiring) matches. Unfortunately, there's a tall component on the T-board that must be dealt with before the grips can fit over it. Fixing this problem is probably beyond most people - it requires some delicate soldering.

Apparently, Damon is working on a Rex T-board so we'll see if that is a better fit.

The wiring to the eyes makes a sharp turn on the right side of the marker (under the eye cover), and it is VERY POSSIBLE that one or more of the wires could get pinched if you're not careful putting on the eye cover. A little Dremeling here could probably help.

The trigger switch is tiny and not replaceable by the "50 gram" or lighter switches out there.

Here's some more discussion about solenoid valves and boards.


Regulators:

For those that are unaware, the Type-R features a "bottomline regulator". You need to know that this regulator uses your tank's pin valve to help regulate the pressure into the gun. If you, like me, run a remote line or use a CO2 tank with an on/off instead of a pin valve, you will pass full tank pressure to the internals and LPR and destroy your gun. Well, you'll at least damage all the o-rings in your LPR and solenoid.

Fortunately, the Type-R includes a standard ASA on the body, into which a normal inline regulator can be installed.

I'm not competent to tell you which inline to get. That's a huge question and you're better off checking the stickies of every single marker forum. This gun is very similar to a Wrath, so you stand to get the best information from the Diablo forum.



Feednecks:

The Type-R uses "tab" style feedneck adaptors. As discussed below, Spyder feednecks will work, but may require some sanding/filing to work. The neck on my Type-R fits into its tabs very snugly. Wrath or Odyssey necks should work fine.

I'm going to take my Type-R to my local Pro shop soon and see if they'll let me test-fit a few. Then I'll post my results.

I bought a Wrath feedneck on eBay and it works great.

Just be careful not to overtighten the screws holding the neck on, it distorts the body and will start scratching the bolt. A little blue Loctite 242 on the threads before snugging them down is the best bet.



Ball Detent:

Like an idiot, I accidentally sheared off the ball detent that came with the marker, and there are no spares included. I had a PMI Piranha detent lying around, which sort-of works, but requires trimming since the diameter is slightly larger than the stock detent.

Intimidator detents work, but the "base" is too large and needs to be thinned and cut down. I took off about half the thickness and cut it into an octagon shape. Seems to work just peachy.

Detents need to be about .210" in diameter to fit in the detent hole.



Grips:

This is pure speculation, but Wrath and AR-1 grips ought to fit. Here's a place. To me, they look more comfortable than the stock grips, but I've never held an AR-1 and don't know for sure.

Check the Diablo forum - you could order Wrath or AR-1 replacement grips through NPS.

There is some speculation that Hybrid is making grips for the Wrath, which may work for the Type-R.



Dimensions:

Valve diameter is .687". Main opening is a generous .350" and the valve pin diameter is about .202", but tapers down to .117" to allow better flow. There's a neato delrin sleeve inside the valve. Its overall size is almost exactly that of a Kingman Spyder valve. Full valve pin travel is about .222".

There was some good discussion about upgrade valves in this thread.

The valve pin doesn't easily unscrew from the cupseal, and I'm reluctant to try too hard just yet.



Settings:

Here's page 10 of the manual, which gives the switch positions for the stock board.

After some experimentation, I've arrived at settings for my Type-R. Keep in mind these are from a T-board, and that I'm using a modified Ion reg.

HPR: 275 psi
Dwell: 8mS
LPR: adjusted so velocity was 280fps

I didn't try any other HPR pressures.

Interestingly, it seems that the LPR has a pretty predictable effect on velocity. 1 turn = about 60fps, and 1/2 turn = about 30fps.

ReiGn52 has this to say about debounce:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReiGn52
I just adjusted my dbounce today and it seems to work best at 20BPS setting and the dbounce at 16 or 21ms. It can easily cap out the board on 21ms.



I'll update this post with more information as becomes available.

Special thanks to:
Icedrelm
ReiGn52

Last edited by MondoMor : 10-15-2006 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 07-16-2006, 03:03 PM #2
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Are you sure the back cap isent 10/32 thread? Also, I assume it uses a clapper noid with an air valve over it, therfore it is easy to fix any damage to the noid, its only 2 o rings that need to be replaced, Its very hard to destroy your gun with this type of noid (I am going thats its a Clapper noid with an air valve on top, if its not then throw what I just said out). The valve pin should Unscrew just fine, though most of them have loads of red lock on them.

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Old 07-16-2006, 03:37 PM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icedrelm
Are you sure the back cap isent 10/32 thread?
Absolutely. I have an SAE and Metric plate with various tapped holes in it.

While it is possible to put a 10-32 fitting in, it is NOT the proper size and risks stripping. The fittings from the Type R do NOT fit in a 10-32 threaded hole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Icedrelm
Also, I assume it uses a clapper noid with an air valve over it, therfore it is easy to fix any damage to the noid, its only 2 o rings that need to be replaced, Its very hard to destroy your gun with this type of noid
Yeah, I just wanted to put the fear of God into people so that they're careful.

Here's a picture of the Type-R solenoid disassembled (it pulls right apart):


Note the rust on the inside of the solenoid case - the nickel plating isn't very good. Time for some light machine oil.


I'll probably give the cupseal another try later, but thanks for the encouragement.
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Old 07-16-2006, 03:48 PM #4
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Hmm thats odd, I have had 2 rex markers and they were both 10/32, just makeing sure. And yes the noid is A wee bit diffrent then I thought, thanks for the Pictures! Also great job on the guide, keep the good work comeing!

Jeff
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Old 07-16-2006, 04:46 PM #5
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For all those interested in a QEV, I found a QEV adapter here on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/The-One-T1-TES-R...QQcmdZViewItem

I dont know if it works but just something I found. I also thought you might add that the Type R takes newer style spyder feednecks (Spyder no holes) and the stock barrel is a .693 bore.

It also comes with a delrin bolt already so there's probably not much reason to replace it.
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Old 07-16-2006, 04:51 PM #6
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Spyder and odyssey feed necks are diffrent. Also the stock barrels bore may be diffrent.

Jeff
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Old 07-16-2006, 05:46 PM #7
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That QEV extension will sort-of work.

Here's the thing: 10-32 fittings will most certainly screw into M5 threads, and it's true that all the 10-32 fittings I've got will screw into my Type R.

However, 10-32 and M5 threads are very different, and there's a good chance that if you even slightly overtighten a 10-32 fitting into an M5 threaded hole, it will strip.

It's really tempting to drill out the ram and LPR and heli-coil them to 10-32. Then I could put one of those pretty black Planet Eclipse QEVs on.


Thanks for the thumbs-up, Icedrelm.
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Old 07-16-2006, 05:52 PM #8
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Anytime, I just used a gauge on my R3 and they are 10/32, odd.

Jeff
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Old 07-17-2006, 11:45 AM #9
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I took a file and made the sides of the stock trigger parallel, and found some CD-Rom 3mm washers took out just about all the wobble. It's much nicer now.

I've put the trigger switch in upside-down and I'm generally happy with the result. Haven't played a game with it yet, but it makes a little more mechanical sense to have the button with the metal arm pivot on the bottom than the top.

It looks like longer setscrews in the trigger would be a good idea - it would give more "meat" for Loc-Tite to hold them in place.



I updated the main post - it looks like lots of Diablo Wrath parts may fit directly on the Type-R. I'm hoping to get dimensions soon.
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Old 07-17-2006, 01:24 PM #10
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Wrath odyssey and rex feednecks are all the same.

Jeff
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Old 07-17-2006, 05:31 PM #11
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ummm... I e-mailed Damion a while back and the wrath t-board should fit it
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Old 07-17-2006, 05:50 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishkid91
ummm... I e-mailed Damion a while back and the wrath t-board should fit it
As far as I know, I'm the first to actually try putting a Scenario Dreams T-board in a Type-R.

The problem is the tall capacitor (C3) on the board, which interferes with the left side grip. Unless the Wrath board doesn't have this cap. I've only got the picture on the Scenario Dreams site to go on, but it looks like the Wrath and Dragun TES are the same board. Therefore the Wrath board will have the same problem as the TES board.

Other than the tall cap, the TES T-board works perfectly.

I've emailed Damon my findings, but haven't heard anything back yet.
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Old 07-17-2006, 06:24 PM #13
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Also, the Wrath ram cap contains an integrated QEV.

If the Wrath ram cap truly fits, it may be as simple as calling up NPS and telling them you'd like to order one. This would likely be the cheapest way to get a QEV for your Type-R.

IF the Wrath ram cap fits. IF.
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Old 07-17-2006, 07:47 PM #14
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Isent the type r a pin lock back cap? If so the wrath back cap wont fit, It a thread lock back cap.

Jeff
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Old 07-17-2006, 08:08 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icedrelm
Isent the type r a pin lock back cap? If so the wrath back cap wont fit, It a thread lock back cap.
Dang. I feel dumb(er) now. You're right.

I guess I got over excited.
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Old 07-17-2006, 08:53 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icedrelm
Wrath odyssey and rex feednecks are all the same.

Jeff
Wrath forums say that spyder feednecks fit and I went ahead and tried my friends Spyder Fenix Feedneck (newer style without holes) and it did fit. I was also told by REX themselves that spyder feednecks do fit.
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Old 07-17-2006, 10:13 PM #17
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Really odd, I see them saying that they will fit, but they need to be modded (Sanded, ect.) So I guess they will fit, but it is not a drop in.

Unless that is that Kingman made Two diffrent size tabs for there feednecks.

Jeff
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Old 07-23-2006, 04:49 PM #18
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Well, I found a new Wrath feedneck on eBay for $7 shipped. Seemed like a bargain for a clamping neck, and the Wrath guys don't seem to complain about it much.

Here's a comparison pic:

click for big

Wrath on the left, stock Type-R on the right. Here I am, stuck in the midd.... er, nevermind.

It fits just peachy (no surprise, of course).

If you search for "wrath feed*" on eBay, you'll probably find them. Here's one.
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Old 07-23-2006, 05:13 PM #19
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Would you like a cheap regulator for your Type-R? Happen to have (or know where to get) a stock Ion regulator?

I have tried an experiment, but have yet to to anything else but dry-fire it: Do this at your own risk!

I got a stock Ion reg with a bunch of other stuff for $50 last year. I've never gotten more than about 250psi out of it, and until now, not had a marker that could operate on anything that low.

If you take apart the bottomline reg on the Type-R and take apart the Ion regulator and swap their springs, the Ion regulator is able to output the pressure necessary to operate the Type-R and more.

I needed to add a washer (about 1/16") to the Type-R spring so that it would have some preload when I re-assembled the Ion reg with it inside.

So far, I've gotten about 350psi out of it, and it's not adjusted out fully yet.

I don't have any tanks with pin valves, but if I did, I'd just screw in the bottomline adjuster all the way so that it would keep the pin valve open at all times.
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Old 07-26-2006, 04:54 PM #20
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I just adjusted my dbounce today and it seems to work best at 20BPS setting and the dbounce at 16 or 21ms. It can easily cap out the board on 21ms.
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Old 07-26-2006, 05:20 PM #21
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If your interested. this site http://www.pyr8.1accesshost.com/products.html
has the QEV adapters. I know it says out of stock but last time i talked to him he had some. (was awhile ago since i talked to him)
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