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Old 06-10-2006, 02:26 PM #1
ken crane
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Air System Safety Please Read !

please read this thread !!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please Pay Attention To This Thread.
________________________________________
I AM POSTING THIS AS IT IS NOW GETTING VERY SCARY TO BE A FILL STATION OPERATOR. READ AND I WILL EXPLAIN AFTER THE QUOTE.

A statement form Mr. Trevor Kent form H-Pac concerning an incident at the the Millennium event in Madrid, today the 2nd June 2006.

At approximately 3pm there was an incident where a cylinder being filled exploded. After a thorough investigation and examination of the cylinder / regulator and also evidence found on the fill station, it was decided that a player had sprayed a general purpose lubricant (3 in 1 oil, found close by) into the fill nipple and then commenced to fill the cylinder.
This obviously ignited inside the cylinder under pressure which caused the reg to melt and the cylinder to fly into the staging area causing some injuries believed to be minor.

The reason for this accident was because the player used an incorrect method for repairing a fault with the fill nipple/ reg and thus endangered their own and other people's safety.
H-Pac would like to make it absolutely clear that the entire fault for this incident lay with the improper filling and maintenance of this cylinder.
The player in question has not come forward and remains anonymous for reasons which seem obvious.

Compressed air is dangerous if misused and if you have any problems, you should immediately consult the manufacturer.
Never attempt to repair these cylinder reg units by yourself; you should always consult the correct technicians or manufactures.

Trevor Kent
H-Pac


now, after you have read this you all need a refresher course with oil and chemicals in or

around your air system. DO NOT ! I SAY AGAIN DO NOT!!! ADD DROPS OF OIL OR USE ANY

OIL TO SERVICE YOUR AIR SYSTEMS TO KEEP THE FILL NIPPLE FROM LEAKING. I will report

that 3 times now the fill operator at my old field has had 3 flash explosions. The last one

occurred with an aog memberís tank. I will not release his name as I will explain a little more

in a second. The last flash back actually burnt my partnerís arms and the flash was doused

with water to put out the flames. Thatís correct, the flames. The resulting flash back actually

melted the redz tank cover right to the tank and johnís arms were burnt and the hair was

completely removed from his gorilla like arms. This is bullßßßß and it doesnít need to happen. A

while ago I posted a mini tech scenario about what happens when you add oil or grease that

is not explosion proof. After I posted this an industry insurance provider asked me not to

make a "big" deal" about it. Well guess what? I donít want to die or anyone else to because

of lack of knowledge about this situation.

Now back to what happened with the last flash back. The customer had a leaky fill nipple;

the person who serviced the tank did put oil into the fill nipple. After the tank was filled the

pressure release when removing the fill nipple flashed the oil that had migrated to the area

around the fitting. This flash back turned the regulator black with soot and the cover melted

to the air tank. Hereís where it gets way way way worse. the customer then took the tank

back, cleaned the soot off the reg and remainder of the cover and cleaned the fill nipple

with an spray cleaner used to clean automobile carbs.i have now advised my partner to

change the whole way we now fill hp tanks and goes as follows. When a player comes in for

a fill there are no more "top offs" every tank is now drained and a c/a adapter is screwed

onto the bottle to drain the tank. Then a "purge" is done then a fill will be continued. We are

actually looking into a "blast box" or a ballistic blanket like they use on drag cars to keep the

pressure plate/fly wheel from exploding into the driverís compartment to put the tank in during the fill. Guys please pay

attention to this warning. You most likely wonít be the one that the explosion happens to,

itís the poor sob that is filling your tank. I am awaiting a real tank explosion video to post on line

so you can see how serious this situation really is.

REPTINTED WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM WAR PIG DATED 2002.


Don't Blow Yourself Up
August 2002
Oil and compressed air do not, and should not be mixed. Many people have taken to the practice of dropping paint gun oil into the fill nipple of their compressed air system, especially in the hopes of sealing a leaky fill nipple.

While this would not be a real problem using the inert gas nitrogen, most "nitrogen" systems in paintball are actually filled with compressed air. As air is compressed the amount of oxygen (as well as the other gasses in the air) is increased. Fire, also known as combustion, or an exothermic oxidation reaction requires three things to start: oxygen, fuel and heat. The temperature needed to start a particular fuel burning is known as that fuel's flash point. As the amount of oxygen a fuel is exposed to increases, the flash point drops. With some materials like phosphorus, the flash point is below room temperature, and they will catch fire when exposed to air.

There are many oils which are perfectly safe at room temperature and air pressure. However, when the oxygen content around them increases - as with air compressed into a paint gunís HPA tank, the flash point can lower to below the temperature of the fill air and cause the oil to ignite. This is the principle at work in the cylinders of a diesel engine.

In a recent telephone interview with WARPIG.com, Shawn Townsend of Compressed Air Specialties, Inc., a Bauer Compressor distributor in Southern California, related a warning against using oils in HPA tanks and the story of an accident that occurred at SC Village.

According to Townsend, a customer at the field experienced a leak in the fill nipple of his air system and treated it with a few drops of paint gun oil dropped into the nipple before taking his gear to the air fill station. The player started to fill his tank and dropped it, shouting. Townsend says he stepped over to investigate and smelled the after effects of a fire, and found the fill hose and fill nipple coated in a black film.

Townsend theorized that the fill nipple would have sprayed the oil into a mist, much like the fuel injector in an automobile engine, further increasing the surface area in contact with oxygen and lowering the flash point.

Townsend said that the resulting fire flashed through the tank and the hose. Fortunately the explosion was small, and did not create any shrapnel, so no one was injured. Townsend ended up taking the fill hose out of service, and recommended that the customer have the tank both visually inspected and hydrostatically tested by a DOT certified inspector before filling it again.

Paintball safety lies in the hands of the players. Do not put oil or any other lubricants into your compressed air system's tank or fill nipple. No lubricants should be used on the regulator unless they are explicitly recommended by the manufacturer.
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Old 06-10-2006, 02:33 PM #2
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thats serious. so if we have a leaky fill nipple, what should we do? have it replaced?
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Old 06-10-2006, 05:15 PM #3
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I was completely unaware of this phenomenon. A very informative post, thank you.
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Old 06-10-2006, 06:20 PM #4
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ken may i print this out and give it to my local field owner just in case he isnt aware of this?
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Old 06-10-2006, 06:33 PM #5
depraved
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wow new one to me too. good to hear though.
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Old 06-10-2006, 06:59 PM #6
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Ya know, i hate filling customer's co2 and nitrogen tanks, as half of them seem to want to ghetto rig anything to get them to work for the day. hell, ive seen several idiots actually go home, print a date ( such as 02-05) on a 1x 1/2 inch printer paper and epoxy it to their tanks claiming they had it rehydroed ( lacking any sort of hydrostatic info, such as the company name etc)
ive actually wondered if anyone would make some sort of kevlar style tank cover to fit over a tank when filling so in the event one does explode, less chance of injury occurs. Good info about the fly wheel covers etc. Ken, LMK if you find anything that proves safe yet not extremely inconvient and time consuming to use.
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Old 06-10-2006, 07:25 PM #7
ken crane
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Print It, Mail It, Distribute It, Just Get The Word Out!!! this may sound lame but maybe everyone should add to their sigs "dont put oil in your fill nipple".
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Old 06-10-2006, 07:30 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingus995
thats serious. so if we have a leaky fill nipple, what should we do? have it replaced?
replace the nipple complete or get a factory replacement oring kit
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Old 06-10-2006, 07:37 PM #9
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its a pretty common practice to put a few drops of oil in your asa and gas your gun up.....could this also ignite much the same way as in a tank, or is there not enough pressure, not enough open space, or what?
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Old 06-10-2006, 07:42 PM #10
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not nearly as much pressure...far as i know the oil in the asa is completely safe ive done it for years and never had a problem...its pretty much industry standard as regular maintenance to put oil in the asa.

the thing that makes the tank warm when you fill it is your cramming alot of air into small space the molecules rub together and create friction or some crap like that.


HP output is 850~ and LP output is 400 or 450 something like that. much different than 3 or 4.5 thousand.
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Old 06-10-2006, 10:36 PM #11
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Oil in the ASA isn't a problem. The operating pressure of guns rarely go above 300psi with the uppermost pressure people put into their guns being 800-1000. Tanks have over 4x times that much pressure. Not only that, but guns don't generate the same heat from the pressure as tanks do when filling them.
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Old 06-10-2006, 10:44 PM #12
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Yeah, thats a good thing. Thank god. Anyways, i've got a question. I was playing today and at the end of the day, i filled my tank to 3000 psi, and it was on a table. Somehow it rolled off and hit the ground from about 2-2 1/2 feet high. It hit the side then the reg hit the ground. Luckily the ground was carpeted and the tank was in the tank cover. I'm pretty scared to air up my gun and i really need to be able to air my gun up. Everything on the reg is fine, nothing bent broken. I'm still scared. Any ideas?
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Old 06-10-2006, 11:06 PM #13
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tanks are pretty strong, you should be fine, as for the exploading tanks, this makes perfect sense, this word needs to be distributed
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Old 06-11-2006, 01:06 AM #14
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dopey: Take the tank out of the cover and inspect it for damage. More than likely, nothing will be wrong.
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Old 06-11-2006, 06:51 PM #15
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yea dude one time a tank was in the back of my moms car she did some kinda gnar gnar sharp turn and it slid off the seat into the wall but it was fine no damage to the tank at all and it was in a cover
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Old 06-11-2006, 07:00 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hsx
yea dude one time a tank was in the back of my moms car she did some kinda gnar gnar sharp turn and it slid off the seat into the wall but it was fine no damage to the tank at all and it was in a cover
?
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Old 06-12-2006, 07:24 PM #17
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?
he asked if his tank would be ok since it fell off a tabel mine hit the wall of my car and was fine
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Old 06-12-2006, 07:29 PM #18
depraved
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there is a HUGE difference between rolling into the PLASTIC covered door in your car and free falling from 3-4 feet in the air and hitting concrete.


a high enuff drop on a CF tank can crack the epoxy and all sorts of stuff.
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Old 06-12-2006, 07:31 PM #19
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you are an idiot did you even read his post he said it was carpeted and in a cover
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Old 06-12-2006, 08:22 PM #20
depraved
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you have no grasp over any of the simple physics that have been posted

the reason using oil in an HPA tank can start fires is because compressing gasses creates heat, which is needed to ignite a fire. a fuel source, the oil, is needed to burn. and oxygen must be present for the burning to take place.

now how are u gonna get a fire inside a co2 tank? carbon dioxide is used to extinguish fires as it is non flammable and basically 'chokes' the fire out, there is no heat because of the freezing temperature of the liquid co2, and theres no oxygen in co2 (technically yes there is, but combined with carbon it takes up entirely different molecular properties - and one of those is the fact that it is non flammable).

im not a know it all for air tanks by any means but does this sound in any way feasable? i cant find any logic to suggest oil starting a fire in a co2 tank is plausable.


and also in normal breathing air/compressed air, nitrogen makes up about 79% or 89% of the air. nitrogen is an extremely flammable gas, which is another reason the HPA tanks explode/turn into a fireball.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hsx
you are an idiot did you even read his post he said it was carpeted and in a cover
i know it was in a cover, didnt remember it bieng carpeted. theres still a much harder impact dropping it on a freefall than having it roll into a car door.

Last edited by depraved : 06-12-2006 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 06-12-2006, 08:42 PM #21
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it actually didnt roll and it hit pretty hard
you didnt see it happen so dont tell me it just rolled
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