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Old 05-26-2006, 12:00 AM #22
Maximumheat2001
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why should he get a second chance? These people that have been effected dont get a second chance. They lost years and years of hard work. I do not understand why you are defending this man. If you are a kid in high school trying to debate this for the hell of it or justify his crime then forget it, you will not win people over behind your computer screen while people are flipping burgers at mcdonalds trying to save their house and family.
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Old 05-26-2006, 12:05 AM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by مرتكب جريمة
Yup. Theres ways to ruin someone so bad they might as well be dead, and thats what these guys did.

They're gonna get raped in prison.

You may spend your whole life in prison, but it only takes one night to get raped.

When sentenced, is it fed prison or normal pound-me-in-the-*** prison that he will go to. There IS a difference - which furthers my argument against kewl, he might get it easier than what you see in any normal prisons. Convicted murders, rapists, and child molestors will not even be in the same prison that he goes to if he is just going to a fed "resort".
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Old 05-26-2006, 12:10 AM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kewlies
The SEC has already banned him from big business.

The example should be set that if you try to pull something like this, ALL of your estate will be taken and you will be nothing. I guarantee that money motivates some of these guys more than fear of prison.

And yes, the effect of this is on a larger scale, but is there any risk of him doing it again? certainly not. It is IMPOSSIBLE for him to commit the same crime again. When a killer is on the loose, he'll certainly kill again. When someone robs a bank, no matter what the punishment, they can rob another bank if they want.

That is the difference, I have just now discovered, between Ken Lay and other criminals. He is blacklisted from the corporate world, and he'll never be able to steal again.

so? that still doesn't make me sleep better at night when so many people lost a major portion of thier retirement money when enron went under.
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Old 05-26-2006, 02:19 AM #25
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These two deserve to be drawn and quartered, can we bring that pack please????

But I have a little problem with these poor victims who lost so much in Enron investments; why were they so dumb as to not diversify their 401K? They had the option, they opted for rapid growth and greed (sound familiar?). They also claim none of them could divest from Enron...false. My Father-in-law also worked for Enron, just a regular joe down on the pipeline. Enron gve him $40K in stock when he signed up with them and constntly gave more and more. He is a good guy but NOT a financil guru! Even he diversified his 401K rather than invest solely in Enron. He also sold most of his stock at almost the heigh of the stock price, about the same time as Ley did, the same time the victims claim they were told they could not sell. So how did these suave employees fail at what my financially lost FIL did? My FIL's loss from the collapse was a total of about $3K and never even lost his job as the pipeline was an actual profit producing part of Enron and was sold off and still operates under another company now.
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Old 05-26-2006, 05:24 AM #26
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i understand what you are saying, they should have diversified thier portfolio on thier own behalf, but it has nothing to do with the lieing that enron did and the punishment.
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Old 05-26-2006, 08:19 AM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kewlies
Good point, but it's not like they took that into account. The law says that for such and such a felony you face a minimum of ___ years in prison. There is none of this "He's broke so we'll throw him in jail."

And Furious, a life sentence is hardly punishment. 2 or 3 years i could see as a punishment, but a life sentence's purpose is to remove someone from society.
Right, but you don't understand my point. Lay is convicted and sentenced to a 5 million dollar fine. He has declared bankruptcy so he can't swing that amount. Does the government let him off the hook because his punishment cannot be carried out given his financial circumstances? If someone doesn't pay a fine ordered upon them by the federal government, wouldn't jail time be the next step up in the level of punishment?

Life may seem to be a long time to be in jail, and it is---but as many others have said, what Kenneth Lay did was incredibly destructive. No, he wasn't a violent offender, and no one was physically injured or killed because of his actions. But what he did do was absolutely obliterate the lifetime retirement savings of countless investors, which is absolutely inexcusable in my opinion.
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Old 05-27-2006, 12:37 AM #28
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So all that you (Kewlies) suggest that we do is that we take away all money he makes in the future? What the **** kind of punishment is that? Sure, it's very debilitating to be broke, but he would still have all the rights of everyone else. People must be punished for their crimes. Jail is a great punishment. It's common knowledge that you will go to jail if you pull something like what he did (and get caught). He knew the consequences, he still did it, he deserves every bit of jailtime he gets. I don't feel that he is a threat to society, I am not the least bit afraid of him, I just think that this ******* needs plain and simple punishment for his crimes. Likewise, it'll set an example for anyone thinking about it in the future. If you think that money is that big of a deal to these, then jailtime is a fantastic punishment for them, since they won't have any money there either.
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Old 05-27-2006, 01:26 PM #29
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It doesn't matter anyway, Bush is just going to pardon this waste of food and his friends. Wake up and smell the maple nut crunch.
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Old 05-27-2006, 04:06 PM #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPC
It doesn't matter anyway, Bush is just going to pardon this waste of food and his friends. Wake up and smell the maple nut crunch.
$5 says he won't.
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Old 05-27-2006, 05:51 PM #31
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You sound confident.
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Old 05-27-2006, 06:07 PM #32
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I am. Bush is a ****ty president, but I doubt that he would pardon such a high-profile criminal.
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Old 05-28-2006, 03:33 AM #33
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Clinton did....cute little excutive orders in his last few days. Nobody will notice But I don't believe Bush will do it, too much exposure on Enron.
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Old 05-28-2006, 10:47 AM #34
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How could they even give him jailtime when I just heard a multiple sex-offender get 10 years of probation because they say hes too short to go to prison.
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