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Old 05-22-2006, 09:20 PM #43
varmintnv
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All I can say is this....................

When all of you guys/gals *****in' about the reffing, actually put yer a$$e$ on the line and step the **** up and ref an NPPL or PSP event yourself. Shut the hell up!! Once you know what it's like to to be out on the field for 10-14 hrs with only 1 hour long break, oversee 100+ games a day with little or no shade, and put up with getting shot as much as these guys do, and all the griping about bad calls, and being called every foul name you can think of, then you got no business sitting around saying the refs sucked a$$ or made bad calls all day. When you've sacked up and done it yourself, then and only then will you have the right to judge the reffing at one of these events. It's not at easy as it looks while your sitting in the stands sucking a cold soda, sitting on yer a$$.

And NO, I'm not an NPPL or PSP ref, but I have reffed several small tournies, and spent many hours reffing recball games at my local field. Until you've done it yourself, STFU!!
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Old 05-22-2006, 09:25 PM #44
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refs on the empire field pulled our player for getting bounced and pulled a 1-4-1 and then they wiped off two of the other guys clean so we didnt make finals... another 5th place finish... gay
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Old 05-22-2006, 09:30 PM #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by third lobe
I have to say this, from last year to this year there has been a dramatic drop in the quality of reffs in the NPPL.

At several points in the NPPL "Center Court" i saw the judges do crazy and outrages calls. they cared more about the players jerseys being "tucked" in than what was going on in the game.

What about one of the Dynasty players saying "Reff the ball came off the bunker and hit me" - the reff wiped him clean.

In a game that would have put Philly into the next round. the reffs aloud a player that was hit before he crossed the "50" to eliminate two players on the other team.

Let me not even get into the Miami Rage game where the reffs "took care" of the a "call" on a XSV player when one Reff called a Rage player clean and the other ref thought he meant the XSV player doing the run through so at the end of the game to figure it out Rage was told "it was a bad call" and "sorry". Thanx NPPL for the great reffs this year so far.

disclaimer: please dont start a flame war this is just what i saw in Tampa NPPL. ohh and sorry for spelling

-p
In the same game the refs called a 2 for 1, apperntly someone needs to lear to count past 3........................
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Old 05-22-2006, 10:17 PM #46
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varmintnv.

I have reffed, plenty. However, you're overlooking the obvious. There are two types of posts. The simple ones saying "The refs screwed _____ by doing ____". The others address the fact that the refs are inadequate because the league has yet to step up and secure better ones. One leads to the other. Obviously reffing is not what you'd call fun, but it's obvious that the NPPL as a whole is not doing its best to take care of their refs and enhance the legitimacy of the league.
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Old 05-22-2006, 10:23 PM #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varmintnv
All I can say is this....................

When all of you guys/gals *****in' about the reffing, actually put yer a$$e$ on the line and step the **** up and ref an NPPL or PSP event yourself. Shut the hell up!! Once you know what it's like to to be out on the field for 10-14 hrs with only 1 hour long break, oversee 100+ games a day with little or no shade, and put up with getting shot as much as these guys do, and all the griping about bad calls, and being called every foul name you can think of, then you got no business sitting around saying the refs sucked a$$ or made bad calls all day. When you've sacked up and done it yourself, then and only then will you have the right to judge the reffing at one of these events. It's not at easy as it looks while your sitting in the stands sucking a cold soda, sitting on yer a$$.

And NO, I'm not an NPPL or PSP ref, but I have reffed several small tournies, and spent many hours reffing recball games at my local field. Until you've done it yourself, STFU!!
people should have the right to complaint because teams are paying thousands of dollers and traveling arcoss country only to get screwed on some bogus call. I can see its hard on the refs but you have to see it both ways.
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Old 05-22-2006, 11:19 PM #48
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Reffs were horrible, so many bad calls! They pulled a player on the Ironmen over bunker rub, it was clearly not a hit. It was soo much bull**** it wsant even funny.
One call by a shody *** ref cost a friend of mine team the game and advancement. I was not impressed. These ref were horrible. My friend put it the best "They suck worse than a broken vaccum cleaner".
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Old 05-23-2006, 12:26 AM #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varmintnv
All I can say is this....................

When all of you guys/gals *****in' about the reffing, actually put yer a$$e$ on the line and step the **** up and ref an NPPL or PSP event yourself!!
NO! All we need is a bunch of whiney 14yr olds who don't know the first thing about the rules reffing. . .
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Old 05-23-2006, 01:10 AM #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varmintnv
All I can say is this....................







































, and put up with getting shot as much as these guys do, and all the griping about bad calls, and being called every foul name you can think of, then you got no business sitting around saying the refs sucked a$$ or made bad calls all day. When you've sacked up and done it yourself, then and only then will you have the right to judge the reffing at one of these events. It's not at easy as it looks while your sitting in the stands sucking a cold soda, sitting on yer a$$.

And NO, I'm not an NPPL or PSP ref, but I have reffed several small tournies, and spent many hours reffing recball games at my local field. Until you've done it yourself, STFU!!
I have reff big events before, Is World Cup big enough for you, the EXP,an I run my local field so until you have done it then you STFU. Yes it is hard work but no one put a gun to the reffs head an made them reff, all of them sign up to be reffs. Why, I dont know mabey so they can have fun waisting people money, an to get what ever they get paid.

The NPPL let them do it. Did any one else drink the hot water that was at the players area, we was going on one field an I reach over to get some of there water an it was so cold, the one reff said dont mess with that water go get your own this is for the reffs only, I said our water is hot,he said tuff **** bring some ice.




When all of you guys/gals *****in' about the reffing, actually put yer a$$e$ on the line and step the **** up and ref an NPPL or PSP event yourself. Shut the hell up!! Once you know what it's like to to be out on the field for 10-14 hrs with only 1 hour long break, oversee 100+ games a day with little or no shade ,

You said all of this but you havent done it yourself.

Last edited by bmwag : 05-23-2006 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 05-23-2006, 07:32 AM #51
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NPPL is quickly growing and I don't think they can control the fact that there are so many teams and fields to be accounted for that there just using reffs just to fill the postions... I am not a certified NPPL ref but I know the rules for PSP and NPPL like the back of my hand and when a player is hit he is out... unless its a stalemate then both of the players are out but I know I have been reffing at my local field and had a gun battle turn into a stalemate because there was not enough reffs to make a credible decision but when there are that many reffs on a field there has to be better calls... if you are hired as a reff then thats your job and complaining isn't included... so go out there and call good games all day and everyone will be happy but this is one of the reasons why my team most likely won't play any nppl event except Boston...
Everbody remember Big Dave Bains video and saw really how the pros get ****ed in the *** because of stupid calls... they should stop focusing on wether your freakin jersey is hanging out or not and focus on the game because NPPL is quickly loosing respect...changes need to be made now
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Last edited by Ebladesss : 05-23-2006 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 05-23-2006, 09:52 AM #52
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It seems to me that more reffing mistakes occur in the later games.Probably because the reffs have been out there for 10 hours.I dont believe they switch the reffs out,do they?Thats alot of time on the field and out in the heat. At the end of the day they can't be at their best .NPPL should just hire more reffs and rest them or have them work a max of 6 hours. The NPPL field had lots of missed calls Sat. afternoon,But it was hot the sun was going down and there were wierd shadows all over the field from those assinine banners they put on the players side,that just about ruined the spectating for the players.What was the deal with that,was it intentional[to force people to pay for grandstands] or just rampant stupidity.Anyway fresh reffs would definatly help under the poor conditions that exsited on the Nppl field.Where were the lights?They should know by now there is always a field that goes late.
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Old 05-23-2006, 09:56 AM #53
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refs..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebladesss
NPPL is quickly growing and I don't think they can control the fact that there are so many teams and fields to be accounted for that there just using reffs just to fill the postions... I am not a certified NPPL ref but I know the rules for PSP and NPPL like the back of my hand and when a player is hit he is out... unless its a stalemate then both of the players are out but I know I have been reffing at my local field and had a gun battle turn into a stalemate because there was not enough reffs to make a credible decision but when there are that many reffs on a field there has to be better calls... if you are hired as a reff then thats your job and complaining isn't included... so go out there and call good games all day and everyone will be happy but this is one of the reasons why my team most likely won't play any nppl event except Boston...
Everbody remember Big Dave Bains video and saw really how the pros get ****ed in the *** because of stupid calls... they should stop focusing on wether your freakin jersey is hanging out or not and focus on the game because NPPL is quickly loosing respect...changes need to be made now
my 2 cents
yeah, thats a pretty good post. and to the people defending the refs here it is: its their job to make the good calls, and not to let "10-14 hours" of paintball games ruin them. i know if my job was a ref, i would be going out there and sure as give everything, because sometimes a lot of effort isnt enough effort.

and i know what you mean about the boston refs, i actually live around the boston area so i know how it is. people dont really think of boston as much of a paintball place, but there are teams popping up from the area.

anyways, about the refs, when you see the big teams going up against little teams, its very very obvious who gets the calls. if anybody watched the dynasty match vs the naughty dogs (i think) last week, the greenwood guy obviously got hit, the dogs player was screaming at the refs to check him, and sure enough they didnt. ESPN wouldnt say anything because ESPN likes to suck up (see, bonds on bonds), but during the replay you see a ball hit him. even a noob would know that
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Old 05-23-2006, 10:21 AM #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMartin
Just from what I watched, it's clear the league isn't putting out the effort to really train refs.
Having attended the most recent NPPL PRO Ref training clinic (not as a candidate), I can assure you that NPPL recognizes the issue and is IN THE PROCESS OF PUTTING OUT THE EFFORT necessary to correct the problem.

Unfortunately, you can't train good paintball referees in a single weekend; like playing, it takes time to learn all of the tricks, learn how to read the action and anticipate up-coming calls and get used to the speed at which things happen.

Improvement to the NPPL reffing cadre will be continuing from now and into the future.

I'd strongly urge all 'retired' players and those who have even a passing interest in officiating to find a local PRO clinic and help solve the problem by getting involved.
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Old 05-23-2006, 12:19 PM #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -DD-Freak
btw i think NPPL is going down the drain, 10 to get into grandstand? wtf was that?
are you a moron? you expect paintball to get big, yet you whine about 10 dollar seats. comeon. thats about as much as a meal at a major sports event like NFL, NBA, NHL. etc...



but i agree reffing has to be better in NPPL. NPPL is one of the best leagues in paintball. better refs= better league
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Old 05-23-2006, 12:22 PM #56
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i dont mind paying 10 dollars if i was a spectator

but after paying 2250 entry fee, more in paint hotel,renta car and many other expenses just to play the event i think nppl players should b able to watch the pro games for free

and for the past 2 events nppl has not had good reffing (for whatever reason that might b)
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Old 05-23-2006, 12:37 PM #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZbunker
Having attended the most recent NPPL PRO Ref training clinic (not as a candidate), I can assure you that NPPL recognizes the issue and is IN THE PROCESS OF PUTTING OUT THE EFFORT necessary to correct the problem.

Unfortunately, you can't train good paintball referees in a single weekend; like playing, it takes time to learn all of the tricks, learn how to read the action and anticipate up-coming calls and get used to the speed at which things happen.

Improvement to the NPPL reffing cadre will be continuing from now and into the future.

I'd strongly urge all 'retired' players and those who have even a passing interest in officiating to find a local PRO clinic and help solve the problem by getting involved.
Unfortunately, the NPPL is NOT in the process of correcting the problem. They are in the process of sending out press releases about changes, not actually making any changes. The league has consistently and systematically run the reffing program into the ground over the past two years. Lack of training, lack of support, longer schedules - all combine to drive away the experienced refs who know what they're doing. Who wants to come back to be treated like crap and put in a position to fail? It's not worth the hassles.

For you guys who are saying "it's your job. stop whining and do your job" - you have no clue what you're talking about. After 10 - 12 hours on the field for two days - particularly with little in the way of support (even simple water) - you simply can't perform at 100%. Simple exhaustion impairs your ability to think, react and make judgements. Combine that with a lack of training and the quality of reffing falls off sharply.

This is not to excuse all the problems this weekend. The reffing was, in many cases, bad. However, the refs are not "out to get" anyone. I know it's a convenient excuse (wahhh wahhh wahhh, the refs don't like me) for why you lost, but it's just not true. Most of the time they don't even know who's playing. The 12 hour days, lack of training and lack of experience are the reasons for bad reffing. Conspiracy? no. Incompetence? yes.

The problem is that you won't be able to get and keep good referees with the working conditions NPPL refs currently have to put up with.




And for the guy who pointed out that the refs had cold water at this event - yeah, they did. They took money out of their paychecks and put together a fund. They bought it themselves because the league wouldn't do it. That hot, nasty water you were complaining about? that's what the refs have been putting up with for the last two years and that's why most of the good ones have quit.
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Old 05-23-2006, 12:55 PM #58
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I saw one game where a guy was in the snake and his team mate was behind him shooting his tape this is how it goes:

a guy was shooting a the guy in the snake and the guy in the snake's back man shot one of the balls going over the snake and the reff took out the snake player it was kinda funny!
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Old 05-23-2006, 12:59 PM #59
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i had a reff pull one of my guys when he was diving into the carwash And pull a 2 4 1

at the end of the game we asked the reff...why he pulled the guy diving into the carwash b/c he wasnt hit.....he said he "thought" that he had wiped it (while diving in)and that we should b lucky b/c it should have been a 3 4 1,....when there was no paint on him at all
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Old 05-23-2006, 01:21 PM #60
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Let me sum up the majority of this thread:

Blah blah blah - we lost - blah blah blah - and were blaming it on the refs.

TF
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Old 05-23-2006, 02:03 PM #61
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What rule is that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Highlow
As far as the dynasty call with the paint bouncing, i was with dynasty after that game and they were not lieing, it is a rule and the shot was a buncingball, the call was good.
Please quote the rule number...I can not find any rule that mentions a bouncing paintball.

I have read the rule book many times and I read:

Rule 19.02 Eliminations (1) - Hit. Player marked with paint.

Rule 17.02 Marked with Paint - (paraphrase) ANY paintball shot from a live player's marker (both teams).

Also the only mention of "Bounce" in the entire rulebook is in reference to triggers.
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Old 05-23-2006, 02:11 PM #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamu
Unfortunately, the NPPL is NOT in the process of correcting the problem. They are in the process of sending out press releases about changes, not actually making any changes. The league has consistently and systematically run the reffing program into the ground over the past two years. Lack of training, lack of support, longer schedules - all combine to drive away the experienced refs who know what they're doing. Who wants to come back to be treated like crap and put in a position to fail? It's not worth the hassles.

For you guys who are saying "it's your job. stop whining and do your job" - you have no clue what you're talking about. After 10 - 12 hours on the field for two days - particularly with little in the way of support (even simple water) - you simply can't perform at 100%. Simple exhaustion impairs your ability to think, react and make judgements. Combine that with a lack of training and the quality of reffing falls off sharply.

This is not to excuse all the problems this weekend. The reffing was, in many cases, bad. However, the refs are not "out to get" anyone. I know it's a convenient excuse (wahhh wahhh wahhh, the refs don't like me) for why you lost, but it's just not true. Most of the time they don't even know who's playing. The 12 hour days, lack of training and lack of experience are the reasons for bad reffing. Conspiracy? no. Incompetence? yes.

The problem is that you won't be able to get and keep good referees with the working conditions NPPL refs currently have to put up with.




And for the guy who pointed out that the refs had cold water at this event - yeah, they did. They took money out of their paychecks and put together a fund. They bought it themselves because the league wouldn't do it. That hot, nasty water you were complaining about? that's what the refs have been putting up with for the last two years and that's why most of the good ones have quit.
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Old 05-23-2006, 02:14 PM #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamu
The problem is that you won't be able to get and keep good referees with the working conditions NPPL refs currently have to put up with.
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