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Old 05-22-2006, 09:22 PM #43
vantrepes
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I just spent the better part of an hour typing up a point by point post in response to this, and it all went bye bye when my connection dropped.

On that note, I give up on Zach. A much shorter, more to the point version of the post I had typed up:
Zach, pull your head out, and grow up. Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean they support the status quo. It means they don't support your version of a fix for your perceived problem.
If you don't like the way I post, or what I post, then use the ignore feature of the board. If I upset you that badly, then just add me to your ignore list, and you will never be upset by me again.
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Old 05-22-2006, 09:46 PM #44
p8ntsniffer (Banned)
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I think you somewhat mistake just what "rape" is. Say a 21 yr old guy has consensual sex with a 16yr old. It would still be considered statutory rape because she was underage, even though both were willing partners.
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Old 05-22-2006, 09:52 PM #45
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So lets say im 18 and my girlfriend is 16-17. Could i get in trouble if she says its ok but her parent say its not ok?
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Old 05-22-2006, 10:00 PM #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vantrepes
I just spent the better part of an hour typing up a point by point post in response to this, and it all went bye bye when my connection dropped.

On that note, I give up on Zach. A much shorter, more to the point version of the post I had typed up:
Zach, pull your head out, and grow up. Just because people don't agree with you doesn't mean they support the status quo. It means they don't support your version of a fix for your perceived problem.
If you don't like the way I post, or what I post, then use the ignore feature of the board. If I upset you that badly, then just add me to your ignore list, and you will never be upset by me again.
****, that sucks dude, I'm sorry. I've been lucky enough to never have that happen (the gods of the internet love me).

Dude, it bothers me that you'd phrase it as "give up on me". Call it quits? That's cool, whatever. I was ready to as well. But you're really mischaracterizing my criticism of the way you're going about this. It has NOTHING to do with you disagreeing with me. Like I said, I'm glad you disagree with me and I'm glad we had this discussion, I much enjoyed it (though it was time consuming). What bothers me, and this isn't supposed to be an insult, is that you approach the discussion as an argument to be won rather than something that should be mutualy benificial to both of us. If I've gotten you wrong, that's cool, but that is certainly my perception of you. It isn't that you make me angry, it isn't that I don't want to hear what you have to say (you say interesting stuff), it's that I want you to approach the discussion with a willingness to learn (don't get me wrong here either, I don't mean that I should teach and you should learn, but that we should both learn). That's it man, I'm not trying to be hostile. Cheers.
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Old 05-22-2006, 10:02 PM #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pballa31
So lets say im 18 and my girlfriend is 16-17. Could i get in trouble if she says its ok but her parent say its not ok?
Sorry for the double post, I'm lazy. It depends on your state. I know there's a really really good webpage about this somewhere, though I don't have the link handy.
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Old 05-22-2006, 11:16 PM #48
vantrepes
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Most states have an age limit for informed consent to sex, with an exemption if both parties are within a certain age range. For instance, it may be legal for a 17 year old to sleep with a 15 year old, but it would not be legal for a 30 year old to do it.

Zach, I approach everything as a challenge. The way I see it, if you don't, then you won't get the best out of other people, and they won't pull the best out of you. Sitting down, and having a chat about the existential ramifications of modern feminism doesn't interest me at all. A fact based debate about the current results of the feminist movement would. To be honest, I don't care at all about people's motivations, good or bad, to me, the end result is what counts. That, I think, is the fundamental difference between us. You are happy to talk about the why, what seems like endlessly, while I want to talk about the what, as in, what to do about it, and research the why enough to find out how to prevent it from happening again.

I have gone head to head with $SP$, Overbear, and other more left leaning members without issue. They stated their case, I stated mine while contradiction theirs, they responded to my points, I responded to theirs. Back and forth, the debate/discussion evolving with both sides being forced, yes, I say forced intentionally, to admit that some of the other side's claims or points are valid, and that some of their own are not. By doing that, you don't convert the other guy most of the time, but you build a thread where someone can come into, read, and get both sides of the story from what are most likely two or more very biased people. You do run a chance of changing not the rock solid stance, but the extremity of the views of the people on the other side.

My main problem with your posts are that you seem (to me at least, read below) to intentional obfuscate the things by dragging in unrelated, and obscure theories to muddle the issue at hand. Most of your posts seem slightly condescending at least, and down right arrogant at worst. I see "You misunderstand me" in your posts all the time, but you rarely make any attempt to explain the basis of your point in any type of detail, how it was misunderstood, or why you brought it up in the first place.

From my stand point, I went to School of the Arts, in Rochester NY for most of high school. 450 art students in one small building. Dance, stage, graphics, music, you name it, they had a class for it. I was there for graphic arts, nothing more. I didn't want to deal with people, or be a star, I wanted to learn more about using 2D, and 3D images to convey a point without having to explain it, since that had direct applications to making jewelery*.
You had to audition to be accepted, so most of them had delusions of grandeur right off the bat. The logic was "Well, I will be a star, I got into SOTA, didn't it?" Now, take all the ego of a primodana, wrap it in the arrogance of a teenager, and stir with a good dose of unearned self esteem, and you get a standard issue SOTA student. It was a breeding ground for the philosopher kings, and the leftist do gooders, prodded on by unfulfilled artists who couldn't make it in the big time, so they settled for teaching. I spend three years dealing with those people, and I have no tolerance left for them. I had to deal with people who were so verbose, saying hello to them would invite a 20 minute diatribe on why, in the social context they are currently inhabiting, the salutation "greetings" is not only more appropriate, but also more correct, based on the historical implications of said salutation. These pundits would regale you with their personal views of the current social taboos of greeting others, and how those taboos implicate a steady decline in the wider application of greetings, and their impact on the social order in general, and in specific..... You get the idea.

They would do it for no other reason than the fact that they liked to hear themselves speak, and it drives me nuts. Maybe my reaction to your writing style is nothing more than a knee jerk because of old dislikes. Maybe it's a flaw in my character. Maybe, well, maybe you just like to hear yourself speak

This time, I'm putting this whole damn thing in a text file, so screw you computer, die all you want!!!


* I started making jewelery when I was 12 by becoming a pseudo-apprentice to a local gold smith. I cleaned his shop, he allowed me to use his equipment with my own metal. By the time I was 14, I had saved enough money to buy the basic equipment needed to produce jewelery, and set up shop in the shed behind the house. By the time I was 15, I had pieces in the Memorial Art Gallery in Rochester, and they were selling in spurts, and starts. When I was 19, I got a job with a local jeweler, and started doing production, and one of a kind pieces under his name. By the time I was 28, I was sick of dealing with the art types (other jewelers, and gallery owners, and snobby customers) and their bull**** to the point where I gave up jewelery completely, and I haven't looked back since.
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Old 05-22-2006, 11:24 PM #49
vantrepes
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p8ntsniffer
I think you somewhat mistake just what "rape" is. Say a 21 yr old guy has consensual sex with a 16yr old. It would still be considered statutory rape because she was underage, even though both were willing partners.
rape1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rp)
n.
The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse.
The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction.
Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice.

tr.v. raped, rap·ing, rapes
To force (another person) to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse; commit rape on.
To seize and carry off by force.
To plunder or pillage.


Main Entry: statutory rape
Function: noun
: rape consisting of sexual intercourse with a person beneath an age (as 14 years) specified by statute
NOTE: Many state statutes also specify a minimum age of the perpetrator or an age differential (as at least four years) between the perpetrator and the victim. Consent of the victim and belief that the victim is of the age of consent are usually considered immaterial. Statutory rape is now codified under various names, such as rape in the second degree rape in the third degree unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor, and criminal sexual conduct in the second degree.

The difference is rape is based on one person making a choice, and forcing another to have sex, while statutory rape would be legal, since both parties consent, if not for an arbitrary limit placed on the age of the participants by an act of law. Since this thread is about the question of rape being legal because the woman puts herself in a situation where she could be forcibly raped, statutory rape doesn't even come into it.
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Old 05-22-2006, 11:39 PM #50
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That's fair, I never realized my posts seemed condescending, I'm glad you told me I'll try to work on that (and likely fail). I also certainly feel where you're coming from in terms of seeing first-hand the ******* intellectual type. Believe it or not, I often get pissed off with arrogant intellectualism (unless it's truly justified in the case of real genius). I've had my fair share of first-hand encounters with such people (and, as I'm sure you know, I've been there myself, though I try not to be). I feel that a lot of intellectualism is very ivory tower, very...unpractical. I read a vein of philosophy (not actually present in this thread) that is all about practicality and my fervor for it comes from the impact such reading has had on my life. Friedrich Nietzsche and Gilles Deleuze have changed my life in ways I never thought possible from reading a book. If my zeal for such things comes off as arrogance or as me trying to be condescending, I deeply appologize. I talk to folks about this kinda stuff because I want them to feel the same profound effects that I have. Sometimes I'm overzealous.
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