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Old 05-16-2006, 09:00 AM #1
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Power with the rich & ruthless?

Should power belong in the hands of the rich and ruthless?

This is what I am debating against in an upcoming history class.
It's a question that i thought was simple at first. But after looking at it closer its harder to awnser than i originally anticipated.

I'd like to know what you guys think about it.

Please provide evidence alongside your idea, or a well developed idea or statement.

Thanks
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Old 05-16-2006, 09:07 AM #2
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Are we assuming all the rich are ruthless? As opposed to the hands of the poor and timid? Can you expand on that for the sake of discussion.
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Old 05-16-2006, 09:45 AM #3
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Yes, they are both rich and ruthless.

The poor on the other hand, well thats everything else.
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Old 05-16-2006, 10:04 AM #4
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The very topic itself shows a great deal of bias, since its making an assumption that is not proven.

But you first need to seperate free societies, and totalitarian regims.

In free societies, like ours, intelligent people become successfull people. Sucessfull people become rich people. And rich people become powerful people.

So, the real topic of your debate is should INTELLIGENT people have the power? Or morons? Seems a no brainer.

That said, communism is an example of distributed power, and in all cases, it was a complete and total failure because you taking power away from the most capable, and giving it to the least capable, making an extrmeely ineffecient and wasteful society that can not sustain itself... (and thats why all have either collapsed, or degenerated into facism).

nick
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Old 05-16-2006, 01:06 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hp_lovecraft
The very topic itself shows a great deal of bias, since its making an assumption that is not proven.

But you first need to seperate free societies, and totalitarian regims.
End of story. Period.
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Old 05-16-2006, 02:26 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hp_lovecraft
The very topic itself shows a great deal of bias, since its making an assumption that is not proven.

But you first need to seperate free societies, and totalitarian regims.

In free societies, like ours, intelligent people become successfull people. Sucessfull people become rich people. And rich people become powerful people.

So, the real topic of your debate is should INTELLIGENT people have the power? Or morons? Seems a no brainer.

That said, communism is an example of distributed power, and in all cases, it was a complete and total failure because you taking power away from the most capable, and giving it to the least capable, making an extrmeely ineffecient and wasteful society that can not sustain itself... (and thats why all have either collapsed, or degenerated into facism).

nick

How do you explain George Bush and his cocain addicted, DUI's, and C average self?

You mean that power is almost hereditary. You dont have to be intelligent, you just need to know the right people. The powerful stay in power.
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Old 05-16-2006, 02:51 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hp_lovecraft
So, the real topic of your debate is should INTELLIGENT people have the power? Or morons? Seems a no brainer.

That said, communism is an example of distributed power, and in all cases, it was a complete and total failure because you taking power away from the most capable, and giving it to the least capable, making an extrmeely ineffecient and wasteful society that can not sustain itself... (and thats why all have either collapsed, or degenerated into facism).

nick
I forget if it was Zaire, Congo, or the Democratic Republic of Congo that attempted to use the most educated minds in the country to run the government, but it failed miserably. Because people are typically self serving, it is better to allow everyone, including morons, to participate in government and share power.

Your use of communism to shine a negative light the distribution of power is a poor example because Communist countries never truly allowed the people to choose their government. There were some exceptions and some variations on the way in which Communism was practiced but Communist governments have typically been controlled by an elite few and not the people.
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Old 05-16-2006, 03:28 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XOne
How do you explain George Bush and C average self?
Easy.
His grades were HIGHER then Kerrys. The smarter candidate won. Kerry was a low-C student.

That said, both candidates represented nepotism and chronyism
inherent to all societies.

Nick
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Old 05-16-2006, 03:29 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hp_lovecraft
Easy.
His grades were HIGHER then Kerrys. The smarter candidate won. Kerry was a low-C student.

That said, both candidates represented nepotism and chronyism
inherent to all societies.

Nick
Kerry can suck a big one. Atleast he served in Nam though.
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Old 05-16-2006, 03:34 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadLock Doc
Because people are typically self serving, it is better to allow everyone, including morons, to participate in government and share power.
You need to differentiate "allowing morons to share power if they want it", and "forcing morons to share power". Because ANYONE in a free society can have power, if they have the will to work for it, and do what is needed to get there.

So, the intelligent and succesfull get there, while others do not, creating a more productive and effecient government and society.

Quote:
Your use of communism to shine a negative light the distribution of power is a poor example because Communist governments have typically been controlled by an elite few and not the people.
But they never started that way. Communism always starts with the promise of completely distributed power, but always degrades into oligarchy, and dictatorships.

nick
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Old 05-16-2006, 03:37 PM #11
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This is a very pointless topic, which goes by some sort of biased sterotype that rich people are "out to get you". Stop whining, lots of very wealthy people donate some of their wealth to good causes. The bottom line is that they arent simply born rich. Many of them have worked very hard to get to where they are. If you get excellent grades in school, go to college, and get a good education, you can expect to make a lot of money in life. If you drop out of highschool and have poor grades, do you expect to become a millionaire?
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Old 05-16-2006, 04:17 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XOne
Kerry can suck a big one. Atleast he served in Nam though.
for a photo op, so your point being?
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Old 05-16-2006, 04:24 PM #13
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I know a myriad of individuals with an above average intelligence that don't pursue money and power.

I think that its a true mistake to classify intelligence as resulting in wealth. While every modern success story does show intelligence can bring you wealth (i.e. Bill Gates, Larry Page ), it excludes the vast majority of people that are just as smart that just happen to have a type B personality.
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