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Old 06-17-2003, 10:03 PM #1
defiance
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Little Rock, AR
 has been a member for 10 years
Chaos/Tantrum Chip FAQ's

Chaos/Tantrum Chip FAQ's

****CONTENTS****

-How do I know which board/chip will work with my bushy/defiant/bko/shocktech?
-What models of ICD marker can use a Chaos product?

- Are any of the chips/boards NPPL legal?

-What are the DIP Settings for my chip? (Not applicable to 2k3 boards)?

- What are the trigger programming sequences for my board? (2k3 only)

**post 2**

- What is Debounce? What is Trigger bounce? What is switch bounce? What is sweet spotting?

- Does the chaos chip support the stock (…)

-What is normal Vs. untimed eye mode?
-Why does my eye bypass when I fire without air
-What is After-eye delay?
-(A basic description of eye logic)

- Can I install an eye on any chaos chip? If so, how?
- I have an older chaos eye, and it has broken/cracked - where do I get a replacement?

- Tantrum vs chaos – what’s the difference?

- Trigger programming?

- Where are the chips available?

- What is (x) mode?

**post 3**

- What are recommended settings?

- What are the differences in board revisisons?

- What is the Entropy?

************************************************** **

-How do I know which board/chip will work with my bushy/defiant/bko/shocktech?
-What models of ICD marker can use a Chaos product?

All current ICD markers are compatible with a chaos product. There are 3 available series, and 2 of each type. The type is determined by preference - do you want semi only, or mode equipped?

The important decision, however, is series – usually, there is a right, and two wrongs – if you get the wrong one, it will not work, or will not work properly.

To tell which series you need, look at your current control board. If your control board is a completely flat board with all surface mount components and 12 pins, and this board is mounted in the gripframe along with the battery, then you have a “2k3 board”.

If your control board has 22 pins on top and a little blue “knob” on the right, and a removable ‘chip’ in a socket, (or if you’ve got an LCD), then you’ve got an “LCD board”

If your control board has 12 pins on top and a removable ‘chip’ in a socket, then you have an “Old Style” board.

Shochtech simply uses stock software in a stock board, just with a raised bps limit. Thus, the above still applies.

************************************************** **
- Are any of the chips/boards NPPL legal?

Currently, the Semi Only models conform to all printed NPPL rulings. The MAX models, however, do not; they incorporate modes, and even though the modes can be effectively locked, NPPL rules state that even the capacity to fire in an enhanced mode is illegal. I would recommend that any tourney players read the debounce segment thoroughly, however.

************************************************** **
-What are the DIP Settings for my chip? (Not applicable to 2k3 boards)?

The DIP settings for all of the new (color coded) chips are listed below. There are a few exceptions, they’ll be listed at the bottom.

LCD Board MAX chip (blue)

1 2 setting
off off semi auto
on off turbo
off on autoresponse
on on full auto

3 setting
off 8ms dwell
on 10ms dwell

4 5 6 setting
off off off 9 bps
on off off 10 bps
off on off 12 bps
on on off 13 bps
off off on 14 bps
on off on 16 bps
off on on 18 bps
on on on UL bps

7 setting *1*
off Standard eye mode
on Untimed eye mode

8 setting
off tourney lock on
on tourney lock off (trigger programmable mode)

New Style Board SEMI DIP settings:

1 2 3 setting
off off off 6ms dwell
on off off 7ms dwell
off on off 8ms dwell
on on off 10ms dwell
off off on 12ms dwell
on off on 14ms dwell
off on on 17ms dwell
on on on 20ms dwell

4 5 6
off off off 9 bps
on off off 10 bps
off on off 12 bps
on on off 13 bps
off off on 14 bps
on off on 16 bps
off on on 18 bps
on on on UL bps

7 8 setting
off off 2ms eye delay
on off 4ms eye delay
off on 6ms eye delay
on on 8ms eye delay



Old style board MAX DIP settings:

1 2 setting
off off semi auto
on off turbo
off on autoresponse
on on full auto

3 setting
off 8ms dwell
on 10ms dwell

4 5 6 setting
off off off 9 bps
on off off 10 bps
off on off 12 bps
on on off 13 bps
off off on 14 bps
on off on 16 bps
off on on 18 bps
on on on UL bps

7 Eye interface

8
off tourney lock on
on tourney lock off (trigger programmable mode)

Old style board SEMI DIP settings:

1 2 3 setting
off off off 6ms dwell
on off off 7ms dwell
off on off 8ms dwell
on on off 10ms dwell
off off on 12ms dwell
on off on 14ms dwell
off on on 17ms dwell
on on on 20ms dwell

4 5 6 setting
off off off 9 bps
on off off 10 bps
off on off 12 bps
on on off 13 bps
off off on 14 bps
on off on 16 bps
off on on 18 bps
on on on UL bps

7 Eye interface

8 setting
off 4ms eye delay
on 6ms eye delay

*1* - On the “blue” chips, DIP 7 has changed a few times – in it’s original application, it was “off” for a “low” eye delay setting, and “on” for a “high” eye delay setting. This was true for the first chaos and tantrum chips. On some later Tantrum chips, however, the eye delay was hard coded so that DIP 7 could be used for extra modes. When DIP 7 was on, DIP 1 off would set to unfiltered semi, DIP 1 on would set to Tantrum. This list will be correct for chips shipped after June, 2003.

For older series chaos chips, there are several versions available, and several dip setting options available. The chips are not clearly identifiable, so this answer can be difficult. I’ll compile more and add it later.

************************************************** **
- What are the trigger programming sequences for my board? (2k3 only)

To change settings with the Chaos 2k3 board, remove the "Tourney Lock" jumper, and then follow the guidelines below. With the tourney lock in place, no settings will be changeable, and the board will always use Semi Auto with the highest debounce settings.

To initiate trigger programming, turn the marker off, pull the trigger, and turn the marker on again. The LED will blink once, pause, blink twice, pause, etc. Release the trigger as the LED is blinking the number of times that corresponds to the setting you wish to change. The settings are as follows:

Production:
1 - Presets
2 – Mode *2*
3 - ROF
4 - Dwell
5 - Debounce
6 - After-eye delay (& forced eye bypass)
7 - eye timer mode

Prototypes:
1 – Mode *2*
2 – ROF
3 - Dwell
4 - Debounce
5 - After-eye delay (& forced eye bypass)
6 - eye timer mode

(*2* Prototypes did not have presets option. Mode option will simply be skipped on semi only boards, so that you will get one blink, then three blinks).

when you release the trigger, the LED will turn off, signifying that the marker will now let you change that setting. As soon as you are ready to change the setting, pull the trigger again. The trigger will blink in the same pattern. Simply release the trigger when the LED blinks correspond to the setting you want for that option. Tables for each option follow.

**Presets**
1 - Conservative (Semi, 13bps, Dwell of 10ms, debounce 7, 6ms AE Delay, Drop shot after timer)
2 - Normal (Semi, 14bps, Dwell of 8ms, debounce 7, 5ms AE Delay, Drop shot after timer)
3 - Fast (Semi, 16bps, Dwell of 8ms, debounce 7, 4ms AE Delay, Drop shot after timer)
4 - Extreme (Semi, 18bps, Dwell of 6ms, debounce 5, 4ms AE Delay, Drop shot after timer)

**MODE**
1 - Semi
2 - Turbo
3 - Autoresponse
4 - Full Auto

**ROF**
1 - 20/UL
2 - 18
3 - 16
4 - 14
5 - 13
6 - 12
7 - 10
8 - 9

**DWELL**
1 - 6
2 - 8
3 - 10
4 - 12
5 - 14
6 - 16
7 - 18
8 - 20

**Debounce**
1 - 1 (very fast debounce return, meaning likely bounce shots)
2 - 2
3 - 3
4 - 4
5 - 5
6 - 6
7 - 7
8 - 8 (extremely slow debounce return, should eliminate any bounce shots)

**After-Eye Delay**
1 - eye bypassed
2 - 0
3 - 1
4 - 2
5 - 3
6 - 4
7 - 5
8 - 6

**EYE TIMER MODE**
1 - Drop shot after timer
2 - Fire after timer
__________________
"...I question the contributions of some of the named inventors, specifically Billy Gardner and Adam Gardner..."
"...the evidence strongly suggests that neither Billy nor Adam could have invented what is claimed."
"As with the lack of any documentation of the Gardnrs' work, Billy and Adam Gardner's testimony regarding thier own contributions does not suggest the work of inventors."

U.S. District Judge Garr M. King, Re: Smart Parts' patent on electronic paintball markers

Last edited by defiance : 08-04-2003 at 11:22 PM.
defiance is offline  
Old 06-17-2003, 10:04 PM #2
defiance
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Little Rock, AR
 has been a member for 10 years
************************************************** *
- What is Debounce? What is Trigger bounce? What is switch bounce? What is sweet spotting?

Trigger bounce comes in two forms. The first is switch bounce. This occurs because the tiny contacts in a microswitch (such as the one behind your trigger) connect and disconnect several times each time the switch is turned on or off. If a microcontroller does not properly filter these out, you’ll get multiple firing sequences per pull.

The seconds is trigger bounce, or sweet spotting. This occurs when the marker is tuned such that it’s own recoil will pull the finger off of the trigger *JUST* enough to release the microswitch, and the finger’s continuing pressure re-pulls it. The marker then recoils again, and the process repeats.

The easiest way to tell the difference is this: Does the bounce occur even when the marker does not have air?

If so, then you have microswitch bounce. There were a few Tantrum/Chaos chips shipped without a completely effective debounce filter – If you believe you have one, contact myself or your supplier for a replacement or reflashing. Or, if you’ve got a 2k3, turn the debounce up or install the tourney lock.

If it only bounces with air, then this has nothing to do with a chip. The trigger is actually being completely actuated again, so it really SHOULD be considered a trigger pull. “Why did my stock chip not do it, then?” Simple: the stock chip IGNORES any trigger pulls that occur while the previous firing cycle was occurring. Thus, if you had your ROF set at 13bps, if the event occurred before that 1/13 of a second was up, the stock chip ignored it. This is slow and causes skipped shots. The chaos chip buffers one shot in a “shot-smoothing” pattern, which severely increases trigger responsiveness – but, since the bounce actually occurs in a timeframe that could just as well be a true trigger pull, there is no practical way to ignore it without skipping shots – besides, the problem actually lies in the trigger adjustment anyway; any fix would be a “band-aid” that causes performance loss. Just fix your trigger!

As explained before, this occurs when the trigger can be actuated again by the marker’s recoil. So, there are several preventative measures to take in order to stop this. First, don’t put your “fire point” at the extreme rear of the trigger pull. Make a small bit of space after the fire pull. Not much, but some. This way, the recoil shouldn’t push your finger back past the firing point. Second, install a stiffer spring – or, at a minimum, A spring. This way, if the recoil pushes your trigger back past the firing point, it will tend to continue moving back, rather than just ‘flopping’ against the microswitch.

Keep in mind, trigger bounce OR switch bounce, it’s still not tourney legal, and it’s still not truly semi auto. Cheaters bite.


************************************************** *
- Does the chaos chip support the stock (…)

Currently, all models of chaos chip/board support ALL of their equivelant stock markers’ functions – including LCD and PDS.


************************************************** *
-What is normal Vs. untimed eye mode?
-Why does my eye bypass when I fire without air
-What is After-eye delay?
-(A basic description of eye logic)

Technically, untimed is not a correct description. Let me explain – for the chaos series eye interface, the marker starts in a “ready to fire” mode. As soon as the trigger is pulled, the eye monitors bolt position until the bolt opens. If the bolt never opens, eye cannot do it’s job, so it bypasses. Prior to 2003, this would remain until the marker was power cycled. New chips now automatically monitor for eye operation even when the eye is not being used, and will “kick back on” after a few shots of working properly. In any case, once the system sees the bolt retract, it begins watching for a ball to drop. In normal operation*, the ball drops in a moment, and assuming that the ROF limitation isn’t still waiting to clear, the system delays for the “after-eye delay” (to allow the ball to settle), then the ready-to-fire bit kicks back on. There is a one-bit buffer at this point, so if the trigger has been pulled while the marker was waiting on the ball, it will at this point delay for the “after-eye delay” (to allow the ball to settle), then immediately fire.
* One thing to keep in mind is that the system, for safety and logic reasons, will only wait up to ¼ second for a ball drop. At this point, the difference is figured in – if there is a shot in queue, then if the marker is in standard operation, the marker immediately fires and starts over – thus allowing for dry-firing. If, on the other hand, the marker is in ‘untimed’ mode, it instead clears the shot buffer and continues to wait. As soon as a ball has dropped, it will allow you to fire again. (note – if the trigger is pulled again, the buffer will re-populate, but it will never hold for more than ¼ second – thus, if you have no feeding for 10 seconds, then you pull the trigger, then a ball falls within ¼ second, it will still fire the shot you just pulled)
SO … clear as mud?  Believe me, that is an extremely rough run-down, there’s more to it, and this logic is the culmination of years of adjustment and feedback, and it works VERY well.

For comparison: Stock logic:
Pull trigger > Is ball present? –Yes> fire / -No> Ignore trigger pull
(supplement – on 2k3’s, if a ball loads while the trigger is still pulled, it will fire as well)

************************************************** *
- Can I install an eye on any chaos chip? If so, how?
- I have an older chaos eye, and it has broken/cracked - where do I get a replacement?

All chaos systems currently produce support antichop systems. Recommended parts are available from digikey, and the part numbers are listed below. Note that older chaos systems use the reflective eye part listed, and it is a drop-in replacement.

Reflective eye: OR535-ND
Reflective eye hns: OR559-ND
2-sided eye emitter: QED522-ND
2-sided eye detector: QSD722-ND

Keep in mind, eye installations take some electrical and mechanical skill – so, I’m not going to post detailed pinouts here. However, if you are up to snuff, email me and I’ll give you whatever details you need.

************************************************** *
- Tantrum vs chaos – what’s the difference?

From this point forward, nothing. DIP settings were marginally different (see the notes in the dip setting segment above). Tantrum had one extra mode (tantrum – Contrary to popular belief, chaos has had unfiltered semi for the same amount of time that Tantrum has). Tantrum also had an option for ROF programming with the trigger. Chaos, on the other hand, first offered the dual-mode eye logic discussed above.
As of now, however, there are getting to be too many chaos versions being maintained – so, for simplicities sake, I have combined the tantrum and chaos lineup. The Tantrum/Chaos chip now has all of the modes of the chaos (though now the extra two modes must be trigger programmed), the ROF trigger programming, and the selectable eye mode.

************************************************** *
- Trigger programming?

For non-2k3 MAX chips, trigger programming of the mode or ROF is simple. Simply hold down the trigger while the marker boots up. The LED will begin flashing (and if you have an LCD, it will begin displaying modes). It will flash a number of times, then pause, then flash an incremented number, then pause, etc. You simply must release the trigger when as or after the flashes correspond to the mode number you want. Modes are:
1) – Semi
2) – Turbo
3) – Autoresponse
4) – Full Auto
5) – Unfiltered Semi
6) – Tantrum

After releasing the trigger, wait 3 seconds and it will be ready to fire. If you wish to program the ROF as well, pull the trigger again after 1 second, and the same sequence will begin again – only this time, the blinks correspond to ROF’s. The ROF’s are as follows:
1) – 20/UL bps
2) – 18 bps
3) – 16 bps
4) – 14 bps
5) – 13 bps
6) – 12 bps
7) – 10 bps
8) – 9 bps

************************************************** *
- Where are the chips available?

Vaporworks http://www.vaporworks.net
and
Tantrum paintball http://tantrumpaintball.com

************************************************** *
- What is (x) mode?

Semi – one pull, one shot. You know the drill.
Turbo – alternating one pull one shot and pull-shoot, release-shoot.
Autoresponse – pull-shoot, release-shot.
Full Auto – fires at maximum set ROF (limited by ACE/PDS if enabled)
__________________
"...I question the contributions of some of the named inventors, specifically Billy Gardner and Adam Gardner..."
"...the evidence strongly suggests that neither Billy nor Adam could have invented what is claimed."
"As with the lack of any documentation of the Gardnrs' work, Billy and Adam Gardner's testimony regarding thier own contributions does not suggest the work of inventors."

U.S. District Judge Garr M. King, Re: Smart Parts' patent on electronic paintball markers

Last edited by defiance : 08-04-2003 at 11:14 PM.
defiance is offline  
Old 06-17-2003, 10:05 PM #3
defiance
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Little Rock, AR
 has been a member for 10 years
************************************************** *
- What are recommended settings?

Mode – Semi, of course.
ROF – If you have a properly set up eye/PDS, you can set this at 20/UL most of the time. Otherwise, you want to set this at the minimum ROF that your feeder can CONTINUALLY maintain.
Dwell – This one is a balancing act. Higher dwells give more consistency, but increase gas consumption. Lower dwells are efficient, but inconsistent. Set it as low as you can set it without sacrificing consistency.
Debounce – I recommend setting this all the way up. It’s really only there because of the number of people demanding it (and the industry seems to have accepted an adjustable debounce now). But, you’ll notice that tourney lock forces it all the way up – this IS for a reason. A low debounce is no different than “classic” turbo mode.
After Eye delay- set it as low as you can without any chops. Usually this will be around 3 or 4.
Eye mode – whichever you like.

************************************************** *
- What are the differences in board revisisons?

Keep in mind that I am a perfectionist who believes nothing is ever perfect; there is always room for improvement. So, many times, I have ideas for the *next* revision before the last revision is done. This line will be constantly updated, changing as new ideas present themselves.

Prototype -
- did not properly mount with mounting screw
- VERY tight fit with battery
- some jumper wires on back
- no tourney lock jumper
- some minor problems (mostly with trig. programming)

V1 -
- required some (tiny) sanding to mount properly
- battery still tight (though better than proto)
- software (trig. programming) problems eradicated

V2 - (under construction, will probably ship by end of AUG)
- converted all caps/resistors to smt to allow easier batt install
- reshaped bottom of board for fit without sanding
- also changed oscillator for battery fit
- other changes to make assembly easier

V3 - (concept)
- convert entire board to surface mount, ship with prog. cable
- other changes? Unknown. Maybe run on Entropy code for LCD compatibility?

************************************************** *
- What is the Entropy?
The Entropy is all around you. It's in the water you drink. It's in the Air you breathe...


well, actually, it's not - there are only (6, I think?) of them, and I have 2, and two are on shelves somewhere unused as far as I know -
It was going to be an enhanced board for the LCD series bushmaster, but ICD announced that the LCD was coming to a halt just before completing development, so the only ones in existence are the revision of the prototype I was testing at that moment. It adds in menus and cool stuff like that to the LCD. It has an EXTREMELY accurate max ROF calculation routine, with software selectable tuning (turn on/off averaging, set it to peak or last, etc). It also has a max CPS test mode that uses the eye to simulate infinitely fast loading, cycling the marker at it's mechanical limits. The software is complete, and it's basically completely compatible with the LCD board chaos chip - so, with a small bit of modification, I can actually convert a stock LCD board to an Entropy board - however, noone has taken advantage of this to date.
__________________
"...I question the contributions of some of the named inventors, specifically Billy Gardner and Adam Gardner..."
"...the evidence strongly suggests that neither Billy nor Adam could have invented what is claimed."
"As with the lack of any documentation of the Gardnrs' work, Billy and Adam Gardner's testimony regarding thier own contributions does not suggest the work of inventors."

U.S. District Judge Garr M. King, Re: Smart Parts' patent on electronic paintball markers

Last edited by defiance : 08-04-2003 at 11:09 PM.
defiance is offline  
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