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Old 03-01-2006, 10:27 AM #43
paintball addict
Jon Fuhrman
 
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hey guys, just wanted give my input.

I run a small tournament field. Mostly catering to the larger tournament player base that this part of indiana has.

I run BYOP, BUT, I charge $30 entry, plus $10 for all day air. In the end, players are THINKING they are saving money by not going to a FPO field, but in the end they are paying the same price. The closest paintball store to my field charges $40.00/case for Diablo "Heat" and $70 a case for Xball Silver.

In the end, I make enough to sustain my business. But like I said, I'm only a small field, with 2 Xball fields, 4500psi fills, and a very small "Shed" that I run the "check-in" station from.
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Old 03-01-2006, 10:54 AM #44
SlartyBartFast
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Quote:
Originally Posted by paintball addict
I run BYOP, BUT, I charge $30 entry, plus $10 for all day air. In the end, players are THINKING they are saving money by not going to a FPO field, but in the end they are paying the same price.
That's exactly my point. Price each service accordingly.

No one group should be making up for losses with another group.

While someone who shoots a case of paint during group play only costs a fraction more to supervise and cleanup after, they are being gouged IMO because they are paying more of the field cost share for those that shoot only the bag full that was included with group admission.
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Old 03-01-2006, 11:16 AM #45
matty84
 
 
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First, let me state that I am not a field owner, but have been around paintball for over 10 years and have been employed at a few different fields in the area.

My question to you is: Why do you want to switch to BYOP?

I think that one of the driving reasons for fields to switch over to BYOP is because of nearby competition. If you are the only show in town, why switch over?

I also believe that there are some false assumptions being made in regards to only tournament teams really taking advantage of the BYOP option (Bulk Purchasing etc.) I cannot recall how many times I see recreational players bringing in their 'lock-box' of paint from the local walmart instead of spending the extra five dollars on a case from the field.

I think you first need to address the real reasons as to why you want to switch (sounds freudian eh?), and then from there decide if it's worth it. Another option would be to simply have competitive pricing with the paint... For instance, charge 15-25 for entrance and then use a medium grade paint (premium or something) at $45 - 50 a case. While this lowers your margins on paint, it will at least secure that line of revenue. Another option would be to charge for all day air to the people who would wish to bring their own paint.

Maybe I am out of element here, but I wanted to throw in my .02

-Matt

Last edited by matty84 : 03-01-2006 at 11:19 AM.
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Old 03-01-2006, 11:50 AM #46
Rare Faction
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The field I work at charges $12 for entry, +$5 if you want to use your own paint, +$5 for all-day air (HPA only). Paint is very reasonably prices, $40ish for whitebox, up to 55-60 for Marbs and Evil. We have no problems getting business
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Old 03-01-2006, 02:26 PM #47
Coach Wargo
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Location: Munster, IN
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlartyBartFast
IMO, business should treat customers fairly. Everything should be priced to allow the operating to remain profitable catering to the average customer. But, as soon as a customer shows more loyalty to the business, the tables should turn. The business should cut the customer as much slack as possible and drastically reduce the mark-up.

I've been going to the same gas station for years, so much so that the girls know my name, and I don't have to prepay anymore, but the price of my gas has never gone down. I go to the same grocery store every week but I still pay full price for my steaks and beer.

My point is that while you may want to throw some perks to you regulars, you shouldn't "drastically reduce the mark-up." If you're providing quality paint and reasonable prices ($60 -$70 is pretty decent) then I don't have a problem with it. What ticks me off as a player is paying $80 -$90 for the crap I can get at Wal-Mart.

The regulars know if they're getting ripped off, and if they think they are then they're probably not regulars any way. If you're selling the good stuff your regulars understand that they're getting a better product than they can get at Wal-Mart, and should be willing to pay a higher price.

The smart players, I place myself in this group, want you to make a good living. We know that if you go belly up than we don't have any safe place to play. Sure we can play renegade ball, and buy cheap paint the chops like mad, and wonder how hot someone is shooting. But we won't get the same experience that comes from an organized field, refs, tourneys, scenarios, and to me that's what makes the whole package.

If you've got good staff, good prices, and I have a good time then I want you to take my money. Iwant you take make a living. I want you to keep you doors open. Because I want to keep playing a game that I love.
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Old 03-01-2006, 03:10 PM #48
SlartyBartFast
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Wargo
I've been going to the same gas station for years, so much so that the girls know my name, and I don't have to prepay anymore, but the price of my gas has never gone down. I go to the same grocery store every week but I still pay full price for my steaks and beer.
But hereís where the analogy falls apart:
If you want full service at the gas station, you pay more per gallon. Not an extra flat-rate for the service AND more per gallon.
If you go to a restaurant, you pay more for the cooked steak. You donít get charged for entry, charged to have it cooked, AND more for the steak itself.
If you go to a bar, you pay more for your beer, but the only bars that charge cover/entry are when you pay for a coat check or thereís live entertainment. Or, theyíre the best place (or only place) in town and can afford to turn people away.
So, the perception of fair pricing is the same for fields. A customer will happily pay more for a package (the church and friendly groups), pay for the field, pay for the air, or pay extra for the paint. PERHAPS two out of those three (air and paint, field and paint, field and air) but for all three seems abusive.
And as a member I expect to get the paint at the same price as at the proshop. After all, I paid a membership fee to cover all the average costs.
I know that locally, it is VERY difficult to organise paintball outings with friends and acquaintences because of price. You get sucked dry on the package AND the paint. Granted, when thereís no other choice, thereís no other choice. I guess that charging 200$Can for a case works to keep the fields in business, but it sure doesnít sit well as a customer. Which is why Iíve only played select games and have refused to play with a group who were allowed BYOP once a month because it was still 30$ field fees even if all we used was the air.
Should regulars expect something for nothing? No. But the regulars are providing something invaluable to fields. They provide a risk free guarenteed income that can be compensated on times when the field would be slow anyways. So a regualr game of 15-20 guys paying low field fees may pay just a little more than the cost of staff and not reap in the profit. But when the alternative is not being open that night or having staff sit around with no customers... Nothing turns off a walk-on more than walking into a deserted store or field.
But my in-laws who were heavily involved in tournaments locally gave up because the industry is so insular here. Costs a fortune to outsiders while a select few are either sponsored to the hilt or the field owners are just shuffling cash between each other.
Hence my participation in these forums. Could a field that breaks the local oligarchy become successful? Iím not so sure as the two largest fields seem to be run by the local distributors. So it appears doubtful.
Donít get me wrong, Iím in complete agreement with raising the price of a service and/or consumable as high as the market will bear and as long as you maintain adequate sales. But doing so without providing sufficient added value opens the door to the competition. Also, succumbing to monopolistic pricing means your only picking the low hanging fruit and possibly missing out on larger revenues (although lower percentage returns).
Itís all a complex balancing act...
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