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Old 07-11-2002, 11:27 AM #1
halo13
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Myths about mags and mag equiptment

Recently there have been an enormous ammount of posts relating to "mag myths" this thread will try to cover all the mag myths, and will hopefully reduce the number of redundant posts.

Myth One: Mags chop a lot.
Not compleatly true. Chopping paint stems from two main problems. Short stroking and the feed system. If you short stroke a mag, it will frequently lead to chopping. Be sure its not your fault before you blame the gun. If you are not short stroking and you are still chopping, chances are your hopper isn't putting paint into the gun fast enough. Upgrade your hopper or slow your fire.

There is also a problem with mag bolt speed. The bolt will hit the next ball to be fed as you're shooting and crack it. That ball will blow up when you try to fire it. This is what the level 10 fixes. As a byproduct, it also makes it so the mag bolt can't chop a ball.

Myth Two: Low pressure guns are softer on paint.
This is also not true. While the mags have a high input pressure need, their output is the same as any low pressure gun. The automag generally takes between a 600-800psi input but has a greatly decreased output pressure.

The chamber pressure on every mag since the level 7 has been ~350psi. The ball sees a maximum pressure of 80 psi while the gun is fired. This is less than most guns on the market.

Myth Three: Aftermarket parts are better for the mag
This myth is somewhat true, and untrue. In almost every instance, aftermarket bolts are a bad idea. The stock Automag bolt is more durable and more reliable than any other bolt on the open market. When it comes to non-electronic grip frames, that point is debatable. Many people like the Dye and the Benchmark frames, while many others prefer to stay with the AGD manufactured inteleframe. Its personal preferance on that once I guess.

Myth Four: Closed bolt is more accurate
This is also not true. The only things that determine accuracy are a paint to barrel match and a consistant air supply.

Myth Five: xxxx gun is more accurate than the automag.
Untrue. Again the only things that determine accuracy are a paint to barrel match and a consistant air supply.

Myth Six: Airgun Designs made nail guns before paintball guns.
AGD has actually never produced anything that wasn't paintball related.

For more technical information go to www.automags.org
If you feel the urge to post something, please make it constructive. Also, feel free to correct me if you see a mistake.

Last edited by Nerobro : 07-19-2002 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 07-13-2002, 07:53 PM #2
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Short-stroking won't result in a chop 'everytime' like you said, but will eventually. There are other common causes for chopping besides what you've mentioned. Stuff not being lined up right, PF plug not adjusted right, using old PF instead of parabolic PF plug (especially with a warp feed). Aftermarket parts screwing up. People screwing with their guns, shaving parts and such... etc.

If you set up the gun right and operate it correctly, it will not chop.

You made the bolt-knick problem sound worse than it really is. TK had to shoot cases of paint to figure out that the bolt knick issue was a problem every few hundred or few thousand balls. You can pin prick a paintball and shoot it w/o it breaking if you put it in the right direction. Rounding L. 7 bolts with sharp edges takes care of bolt knicking. But then again, why waste your time doing that when you can get L.10! Hehe.

The side effect of LP is in many cases a slower bolt, making some LP guns easier on paint. But it's the slow bolt part, and not the LP directly, that's the cause. Slow bolt with 10,000,000 psi input pressure and 60 psi barrel pressure will be soft on paint.
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Old 07-19-2002, 01:18 PM #3
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The only time LP leads to a slower bolt is in the mag or an autococker. Every other gun the bolt speed is unlrelated to gun pressure.

I gotta tell ya. The mags I've been around, in slow fire situations, would break paint consistantly. the detents are setup properly. The guns were not double feeding, and they were runnign parabolic feed plugs. adjusted properly. Under rapid fire, they would break much less paint. but if the paint were given time to settle into the breach, and half feed that next ball, every 10-20 shots it would end up blowing one up in the breach.

This is with my micromag, and a powerfeed automag. I recall him saying it took him cases of paint to find the problem. But he didn't say anything about the frequency of the problem. And i'm sure it's also related to barrel and paint clearance. A gun with a big breach like my micromag would run into the issure more often thana gun shooting a laptco with a tight fitting bore drop.

The level 10 did fix this issue.
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Old 12-22-2002, 09:24 PM #4
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Many people like the Dye and the Benchmark frames, while many others prefer to stay with the AGD manufactured inteleframe. Its personal preferance on that once I guess.
a little fyi

http://www.airgun.com/WarrantyPolicy.shtml

"Diamond Labs or Dye frames invalidate the warranty and will require a $45 rebuild fee. Benchmark and, of course, our own Intelliframes will not invalidate the warranty if they have not been modified."
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Old 12-24-2002, 11:18 AM #5
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The only time LP leads to a slower bolt is in the mag or an autococker. Every other gun the bolt speed is unlrelated to gun pressure.
bolt speed and pressure are regulated by the 'autococking reg.' and are completetly seperate from the guns pressure.
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Old 01-11-2003, 03:23 PM #6
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Quote:
The only things that determine accuracy are a paint to barrel match and a consistant air supply.
Also the amount of kick the marker as.
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Old 01-24-2003, 07:29 AM #7
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Originally posted by magger
Also the amount of kick the marker as.
Yes, but only in high ROF because recoil happens after the ball has left the barrel.(which is why handguns are so accurate)
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Old 02-06-2003, 04:17 PM #8
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CHOPPING ?

i have a minimag and shot about 5 cases with it and i only copped about 5 times or less. i use the standard mini mag barrel and it works great i dont know why everybody seems to have copping problems with their mags?
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Old 02-08-2003, 01:27 PM #9
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whats short stroking mean
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Old 02-17-2003, 04:12 PM #10
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i've herd that clasic mags had short range andca't reach high fps i doubt these are true but scince i don't own one i want to find out
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Old 02-18-2003, 04:44 PM #11
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range and fps

i own a classic, and range has never been an issue for me as long as my opponent and i were shooting the same fps. now im not saying that the mag is the BEST long ball gun, but it will get the paint out there. i dont understand how ANY gun could not achieve a high fps, either by turning up the reg or changing springs. so my answer.... no it doesn't and ya it can.
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Old 02-26-2003, 12:03 AM #12
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short stroking refers to not fully cycling the trigerr or not pulling it all the way back, usually resulting in a chopped ball.
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Old 02-26-2003, 01:08 AM #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by enjoidvssk8er
i've herd that clasic mags had short range andca't reach high fps i doubt these are true but scince i don't own one i want to find out
That's what you get for listening to fools and 'Cocker owners

At 300fps, all guns will shoot to the same place, that's a duh.

'Mags can go to at least 425, as I found that out 2 years ago....don't ask, it wasn't pretty!

All markers that are worth a damn, can adjust their velocities well over 300fps.
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Old 03-11-2003, 04:48 PM #14
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I have never seen any of gun shoot this fast... THIRTY BPS, fast, and look at the RT 21 bps live fire w/ zero chops... hmmm interesting www.butters.org
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Old 05-16-2003, 11:37 PM #15
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Easy now

Easy on the cocker users ARMY...lol
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Old 05-17-2003, 09:01 AM #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nerobro


I gotta tell ya. The mags I've been around, in slow fire situations, would break paint consistantly. the detents are setup properly. The guns were not double feeding, and they were runnign parabolic feed plugs. adjusted properly. Under rapid fire, they would break much less paint. but if the paint were given time to settle into the breach, and half feed that next ball, every 10-20 shots it would end up blowing one up in the breach.
Out of the 5 mags I have owned only one was a blender. My orginal RT w/o a properly adjusted tank= blender. I ran it on a preset just or grins Didnt turn out so well, otherwise it would be very rare for any of my mags to break a single ball. These were with the LVL 7 bolt.

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Old 06-17-2003, 12:43 AM #17
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army rules, lol
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Old 06-22-2003, 07:30 PM #18
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Accually technically its if 2 guns are shooting 300 fps in the same position. Cuz u can say mags can shoot farther shooting 150 fps then a cocker shooting 1000fps cuz the cocker coulda been shooting straight down and the mag horizontal.
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Old 06-26-2003, 05:07 AM #19
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same accurate on all guns?

hmm yes but if i have more amount of air throwing away the ball then another marker ? wouldn't that affect the range and precision?
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Old 06-30-2003, 12:13 PM #20
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the amount of air throwing the ball will affect velocity and in return distance. but like it has been said many a time before, if the ball leaves marker "X" at 260fps and marker "Y" at 260fps, guess what; the ball will go the same distance. simple as that. velocity=distance. thats all there is to it, i can't believe people still bicker over the distance debate.
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Old 07-31-2003, 11:30 PM #21
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except if the gun has a flatline type barrel,or hopup, or cooper t bolt with the paint and barrel math being accorded to the bolt.
these all deal with backspin.
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