The Real News About Nerve

[EvilPopTart]

Guys dont listen to the other people trying to give you BS opinions about why the Nerve is late opening. The real reason why Nerve is late is because the Gardners and Smart Parts are too busy sueing the hell out of ICD and other companys right now to actually do real work.

That is all.

[Oiisu]

i thought it was cause they hid them in the SP haters *****

[EvilPopTart]

Im not hating on the products, most of whom are of decent quality, I am hating on the boneheads who run the company and are calling the shots.

[Jdaswat1988]

Originally posted by EvilPopTart
Im not hating on the products, most of whom are of decent quality, I am hating on the boneheads who run the company and are calling the shots. .................................................. .......

[oldskoopimp]

Originally posted by EvilPopTart
Im not hating on the products, most of whom are of decent quality, I am hating on the boneheads who run the company and are calling the shots.

good point

[BunkerKing1688]

very good

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

What they are doing is perfectly legal though. I am not condoning what SP is doing, but they are well within their legal rights to sue ICD. If you would read up on this stuff, you would know that SP talked to many electro manufacturers years ago, i.e. AGD and WDP, about settling so they didnt have to take them to court. The companies laughed in their faces. SP is just looking after what legally belongs to them, and they are going out to get the money. Like I said, I am not condoning them, but Adam and Billy Gardener are business men. Business is exactly what it is. BUSINESS. They are looking out for themselves.

[wudude]

AGD didn't had a electronic years ago though.

[EvilPopTart]

Originally posted by Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman
The companies laughed in their faces. SP is just looking after what legally belongs to them, and they are going out to get the money. Like I said, I am not condoning them, but Adam and Billy Gardener are business men. Business is exactly what it is. BUSINESS. They are looking out for themselves.


How are you going to say the idea of using a switch on the gun is going to be their technology. Uhh, hello! The Shocker was made by another company taken over by Smart Parts. And the Impulse is an exact clone of the bushmaster. If anything they should just shut up and drop the lawsuit. They must be hurting really bad monitarily to try and pull this off.

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

It all dwindles down to who owns the patent.... SMART PARTS OWNS IT. Case is closed. They can do what they want with it, because its their property, and by taking over that other company, that makes them THEIR property. Smart Parts has the patent, and you either have WAY too much time on your hands to be trying to support this idea of boycotting Smart Parts, or you are a die hard ICD fan. Either way, you need to move on.

And yes, 2 years ago AGD was experimenting with the EMag, and Centerflag had already came out the electronic grip frame for Mags. So obviously you need to brush up on your information before you start posting remarks about Smart Parts. Go here and learn more.

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/message?forumid=9013&messageid=1058942255

The main point is the guys at Smart Parts used their knowledge of the rules and laws of infringement. They filed for an expansion of their original patent, and they got it. Like I said before, I dont condone what they are doing, but they are being smart business men, but they ARENT nazis.

[shinigami_zz]

amen to that

ignorance sucks





































mob mentality sucks more
i should use this whole thing for my psychology class report

[EvilPopTart]

Originally posted by Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman
It all dwindles down to who owns the patent.... SMART PARTS OWNS IT. Case is closed. They can do what they want with it, because its their property, and by taking over that other company, that makes them THEIR property. Smart Parts has the patent, and you either have WAY too much time on your hands to be trying to support this idea of boycotting Smart Parts, or you are a die hard ICD fan. Either way, you need to move on.

The main point is the guys at Smart Parts used their knowledge of the rules and laws of infringement. They filed for an expansion of their original patent, and they got it. Like I said before, I dont condone what they are doing, but they are being smart business men, but they ARENT nazis.


its almost you are glad that a company whos products aren't at (if they ever where) the top of the line is going to have a monopoly on the market. Thats wrong and I hope that SP loses hardcore. I have NOT called them Nazis... they arent killing people or anything. However like Doc Nickles said elsewhere on that tinker's guilde forum, many people have passed up patenting equioment widely used today because they thought it would better the sport. From now on, regardless of what happens in the courtroom, I will always thing of Smart Parts of being those no good greedy bastards who have to steal money from better companies.

[shinigami_zz]

steal - To take (the property of another) without right or permission.


what they are doing is perfectly legal

if you are naive enough to think that the companies involved are not all "no good greedy bastards", then you have no idea what the companies are like. what business is, for the matter. its all money-making. its all for profit.

open your eyes.

in the end, we are all money in the bag for such companies.

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

shinigami_zz, you are a complete genious:) I bet you get a high grade for this one. And you are also right about business.

EvilPopTart, I thought you did call them Nazis. Sorry, but a lot of people have been calling them that.

BUT, what I would like to know is why Brass Eagle isnt being called Nazis?? Just over 4 years ago Brass Eagle bought out a company that had made the first electronically agitated hopper. The company was called CM Support, and the hopper was the Viewloader Revolution. Brass Eagle bought them out in 1999, which made them THEIR property. They had the patents on the Revolution. Then some guy thats incredibley smart realizes we need a hopper that can actually feed paintballs the rate of how fast some of these guys are shooting. Hence, TEX from Odyssey Paintball. He makes the HALO, and then Brass Eagle gets angry because they feel its infringement of their patent, and there for they should get money out of the deal. Well guess what... they won. And that is why Halo's are more expensive then the Evolutions out there. They have a higher price, so they can pay the licensing fees...

Now why isnt everyone calling Brass Eagle a bunch of Nazis?? My guess is that the people wasting their time on this whole boycotting idea, didnt like Smart Parts in the first place. For whatever reason, thats fine. But dont try and convert people that dont have all the information, to hating SP with all of your petitions, and anti-SP sites. Lets all grow up a little more, and get some maturity. This is the real world. This kind of business happens all the time. So quit whining about it, and get your gear ready, and go out every Sunday and play and have fun.

Peace,

K-Dogg

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

And another thing... if you honestly think that Smart Parts is worse of a company compared to ICD.... you got some major issues bro... ICD is a very small company compared to Smart Parts, and in my opinion, and in a lot of others opinions, I can bet that most people think that Smart Parts have better gear then ICD. And by your last post, I can assure you havent shot the new Shocker. IMHO, it blew away any other gun I have ever shot in my entire life.

[coreyguy1]

Soo any pics of the nerve???

[EvilPopTart]

My rebuttle to the Brass Eagle thing-


did you miss the whole war just like this in the brass Eagle forum a while ago? Brass Eagle had their time to get hated on. And your right, this is a brilliant short term buisness move. But I honestly think that this will hurt Smart Parts and the rest of Paintball in the long run. If they suceed, look for everyone to release a mechanical gun soon.

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

Well I guess I did miss the whole war in the Brass Eagle forum, because I have never been in the Brass Eagle forum... see in my opinion it wont hurt the business at all. So they are taking on ICD. They wont take on anyone else, because it would be stupid too. You would get not only the ICD fans on your back, but the AGD fans, GEN-E fans, E-Cocker Fans... ect. ect... This was just like testing the waters with your foot. The water will only ripple slightly, hardly noticeable. If they do jump in head first.... then yes, there will be a splash and people will be hurt in the paintball community. But I do not think that they will stoop that low.

[EvilPopTart]

Originally posted by Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman
But I do not think that they will stoop that low.

they've been suing the hell outta everyone for years. nobody is particularly surprised.

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

They sued WDP twice. I think they know that they cant really mess with them. I dont know of anyone else that they have sued unless you know where we can see this information about previous cases.

[Dye Speed 36]

I think all the owners of smart parts should die. I believe that they no moral right to sue another paintball company right now. They have a well business going with freaks impulses and other products. And soon having new products like the new shocker and nerve. They are just greedy and everyone knows it. I also believe that this is going to start a wave with sueing and it going to screw everything up. Finally things with the paintball industry and the television industry are starting to happen. And the real main thing that i got a problem with is that if smart parts sues all these companys they're going to F**K over the paintball industy. Then no one wants to play. And the last thing i wanna lose is my angel. If smart parts F**KS around with WDP they're going to have big problems with me cuz i'm ready to burn the place as it is. I'm not hating on the company I believe that they have created amazing products but there is something wrong with the owners. They already dug themselves a hole with a lot of paintball players. I just hope they fall in that hole and get buried alive.

-Ray

[EvilPopTart]

Your a retard. Its morons like you who are making my arguement look bad. I am not hating on the products, just the bozos running the company.

[Dye Speed 36]

I'm not hating on the company I believe that they have created amazing products but there is something wrong with the owners.

Look did i not say that. I'm just looking to help you. But if you don't want it fine.

[suddenpaint]

well...icd products imho suck already...and i was happy SP was sueing them so n00bs didnt buy them...impulses are better guns than Bushies...no matter how many problems they have

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

Thank you suddenpaint.... impies had problems in the beginning but I havent had one with mine yet. I am not saying I hate ICD, but I would never buy any of their products.

Dye Speed 36... how can you say you are trying to help him when you are talking about burning down Smart Parts... great you piss off Adam and Billy... but you also just ruined a buttload of gear that probably is around the millions of dollars of inventory... if you are truelly sincere about not hating on the products, why do you want to burn down the company??

[suddenpaint]

well...my imp never worked...but when it worked....god was it sweet

[EvilPopTart]

Originally posted by Dye Speed 36
Look did i not say that. I'm just looking to help you. But if you don't want it fine.

your not helping me when you say this...

Originally posted by Dye Speed 36
I think all the owners of smart parts should die.


I am trying to make a point here but when you curse other people to death its not giving me the push I need. I do however agree with most of your opinions about the company .

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

I think me and EvilPopTart have finally came to an agreement on something.:) Dye Speed 36 really isnt helping at all by adding his comments.

[EvilPopTart]

I agree, the kind of things he said wasnt appropriate.

[leathermonkey7]

Where in this thread is there any "Real news on the Nerve" like the title suggests?? Just more BS about SP lawsuits. I am now dumber having read these posts. Who is going to pay me back for the 2 minutes of my life I wasted reading this?? :confused:

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

I could try... I can give you a nickel and a piece of gum.:) Does that help?

[leathermonkey7]

nah, actually 2 minutes of my time is really only worth half a piece of gum with no nickel

[EvilPopTart]

Originally posted by leathermonkey7
nah, actually 2 minutes of my time is really only worth half a piece of gum with no nickel

you sound like the kind of person who would sue McDonalds because you are fat after eating their food.

[quikman132]

If SP wins this is the way that things are going to go down. ICD will have to pay royalties on their guns, price will go up 50-75 bux wtvr. SP then has a legal precendent. So they go after another company, and then another, every time becoming eaasier because they have more precedents. Eventually SP will be raking in the dough from other peoples guns being sold. They will then not have to have such a large price mark up on their guns since their profit margin will already be huge. This will cause the price of their guns to go down, making more people buy SP guns since they will be cheaper.

The reasons the nerve havent been relased, they want to get the shocker out, so they can deal w/ any problems that might arise, they want all the bugs worked out of the nerve, they need the new maxflo's first, they dont want two guns released at once.

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

Yeah, that is the true topic we should be talking about. Why put out 2 guns with flaws, when you can do one the next year and work out the bugs on the one you are bringing to the public right now? I cant wait till they bring out the new Max Flos. They look a lot more sexy then the previous ones.

[TeamWhor!]

Ignorance is rampant in this forum. We are in a capitalist soceity. It is SP right since they own the technology to protect it. You wont lose your angel nor will it cost you anything if you already own one. WDP wont go under nor will any other companys. If anything I think its a good thing since companys will develope better and new things that dont infringe upon the patent. Also do you really think SP cares if you whine about them suing a company? Do you think what you say will be a huge revelation and they will wake up one day and say "Wow we are ruining paintball lets now give our products away" Also if you say that people are going to quit because of it then they dont love the game. If a law suit that wont effect you makes you quit the game then you are pathetic and shouldnt play the game. It may not be right that what SP is doing but its leagal and they have every right to do it. Its not like they are going to write you a letter and say you own an electronic gun you must now send us 75$ or we will sue you. The problem is the people are ignorant and think this will destroy the paintball community. The only ones that really know about this are tournament players. We represent a very small portion of the community. SP does make very good products. As far as im concerned max-flos are the best air systems on the market and there guns are exceptional for the price.

[Eyecare]

You're demonstrating your IGNORANCE TeamWhor!, but that's ok. Opinions are like you know what; everyone has one..

If you guys don't mind, let's stay on the subject (Nerve). There are too many threads on the SP suit already. :cool:

[TeamWhor!]

Hehe I said it was rampant didnt I? I wasnt excluding myself =P

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

:) Way to be TeamWhor!

[EvilPopTart]

Originally posted by Eyecare
You're demonstrating your IGNORANCE TeamWhor


couldnt agree more.

just to stay on subject, sure the maxflow is a good tank. its a bit heavy but a little extra weight dosent really hurt anyone. and sure, the impulse and shocker are good guns... when they came out. THe impulse has done fairly well with all the aftermarket clones, however the shocker is an obsolete piece. I do however feel that smart parts does have the capability to ruin paintball. If teamwor had any deductive skills he would know that they patent covers almost all of the electronic markers on the market. Including all of those E-spyders and black draguns. Therefore, its not just the tournament scene that is going to be affect, but all of paintball.

i wont pretend or anything, I think teamwhor is an ignorant retard. HAVE A NICE DAY!

[p8ntballer4life]

Who the hell cares anymore guys? Geeze, SP is acting gay right now w/ all their patent ****. I agree its gay, and I hope they lose. But regardless, doesnt mean all their products suck. I might try out a 2k3 shocker, and I totally disagree with SP right now. so.......

[AdReNaLiN jUnKeE]

i hate sp as a company but i like their products..hell im shootin an 03 shocker...and oh yes let me remind you guys..they have filed suits against icd,aka,wdp,wgp,gen e, free flow, bob long, national, and kingman...

[darkman6420]

actually they only filed a suit against ICD i think. I don't know why they want to go against national as Gary said in another thread. That would be suicide for Sp if they went against National and the other big companies and most of the big name companies are foreign. ICD is a smaller company and is in the U.S.. And BTW Why does everybody have to bicker about this lawsuit? Why can't we just all be nice and play the game? I love SP because they make good products that work.

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

word, they really do

From what I heard SP and National signed something and National is in the clear now.

And whoever said we are a capitalistic society is right. Its their right. If you dont like whats going on then move to China and live with the communists.

[PMIkid]

Ok I like smartpart products, I have a teardrop, but it just the idiot behind the desk, I mean just drop the **** and let us play ball, and if they win that mean the prices will go up on some guns, meaning some kids won't have enough money to play, so they won't, either way I hope they lose, and if they win that means I gotta find a gun under 500(CND) other then the BKO, due to the fact if they lose their prices will go up, they will sell less product, and then go belly up, its crap, just let us play ball

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

There are many other guns other then BKOs that are faster, and cheaper.

[EvilPopTart]

Autococker > BKO

[PMIkid]

like what a VF cocker is 510. the BKO is 409, and takes less to figure out, thats why i want the BKO

[EvilPopTart]

Originally posted by PMIkid
like what a VF cocker is 510. the BKO is 409, and takes less to figure out, thats why i want the BKO

neg dude.

http://www.armyoforr.com/verticalcocker.html

$399 MSRP. most dealers sell em for like 360 or so.

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

:)I would still want a Cocker. If you didnt know, my AOL name is AUTOCOCKER GOD. I am all about WGP. With a finely timed autococker, and the right maintenance, assuming you have any idea on how a cocker runs, its one of the best guns on the market. Just a pain with the upkeep.

[EvilPopTart]

very true. the problem is more and more kids (not saying in general that kids are stupid, hell I happen to be one) are buying autocockers because they see tournament and field staff members shoot them, and the guns never work because they cant properly take care of their gun.

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

Yeah, there really should be a label on cockers that says, if you are an idiot or mechanically retarded, put the gun down... NOW!

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman
What they are doing is perfectly legal though. I am not condoning what SP is doing, but they are well within their legal rights to sue ICD. If you would read up on this stuff, you would know that SP talked to many electro manufacturers years ago, i.e. AGD and WDP, about settling so they didnt have to take them to court. The companies laughed in their faces. SP is just looking after what legally belongs to them, and they are going out to get the money. Like I said, I am not condoning them, but Adam and Billy Gardener are business men. Business is exactly what it is. BUSINESS. They are looking out for themselves. Amen brutha!

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

:) Thanks WARPED1.

[Treghc]

Originally posted by AdReNaLiN jUnKeE
i hate sp as a company but i like their products..hell im shootin an 03 shocker...and oh yes let me remind you guys..they have filed suits against icd,aka,wdp,wgp,gen e, free flow, bob long, national, and kingman...

where is this proof? I have seen NOTHING at ALL besides SP suing ICD. And SP isn't even suing ICD because of this broadened patent. SP is duing ICD because of ICD's new marker in development. It was supposed to compete with Angels, Timmies, Matrices, and the like, but it was infringing some patent put on the SP Nerve. NOT because of the patent that everyone is whining about.

Now, I'm the opposite from most of you. I'm not a fan of most SP products, but I do like the new shocker and their max flo regs. That's about it though. I hate just about anything else they make. As for this patent... pfft. I've seen NOTHING happen AT ALL so far. The ICD is completely different. No prices have gone up, no companies have gone down... Paintball has, in general, stayed the same. Until something happens and there is actual PROOF and not a simple rumor, then I will go against it. SP has even said that they do not intend to sue any companies because of this patent... But knowing SP, I can't trust them.

Basically what I'm saying is that when the time comes in which something actually HAPPENS and is not SAID to have happened, I will start caring. Until then... meh

[MVPaintballer]

"Ok I like smartpart products, I have a teardrop, but it just the idiot behind the desk, I mean just drop the **** and let us play ball."

PMIkid.. I'm sorry, are they sueing you for playing paintball? They want what's theirs, they should sue ICD. If you were in tgheir shoes you would do the same thing, because every humaan is a materialist. If you think you aren't, you are. If I said "I'll give you some money for free, how much do you want" you'd say "How much do you have" Humans need to be materialists to survive, It's normal. The smart parts owners are just materialists that want to live a rich, happy life, as well as their children to come. Drop the **** about the complaining, guns will cost a few dollars more. But the companies being sued should keep them the same... 400 dollars for a board, LCD screen, some wiring, programming, sensor, solenoid and some framing? Solenoid probably costs the most out of all of that at around 30-40 dollars to make (a lot of machining). (Described my e-blade). How about a e-spyder... uhh, 10 bucks per frame? Orracle MSRP is like 1450. I understand they want money, but they'd sell more if the prices were lower to make up for it and then some.

[EvilPopTart]

MVPaintball you are an idiot. You have no idea what will happen if Smart Parts wins. I can assure all of you that ICD is not screwed monitarily for court payments. I can almost garuntee you that every other company who is going to be affected is throwing money at ICD.

[MVPaintballer]

Yeah ICD will be screwed, your right. SP tried talking to them outside of court, they screwed themselves.

[EvilPopTart]

well if think talking means making threats, well yes they did "talk."

[BigCountry77]

backto the nerve...hence thepoint of thisthread,any updates as towhen the hell itllbeavailable?

[MVPaintballer]

Guys dont listen to the other people trying to give you BS opinions about why the Nerve is late opening. The real reason why Nerve is late is because the Gardners and Smart Parts are too busy sueing the hell out of ICD and other companys right now to actually do real work.

That is all.

^^^ that is the topic of this thread

[EvilPopTart]

exactly. but that is purely my opinion.

[]TSS[ Dake]

Originally posted by EvilPopTart
...And the Impulse is an exact clone of the bushmaster...

Which is an exact clone of the Defiant.

[not_manbot]

Originally posted by ]TSS[ Dake
Which is an exact clone of the Defiant. sure...yeah for the fact that ICD came out with the bushy months before bobby boy came out with the defiant and ICD and BOB COLLABERATED on the defiant it was a JOINT project.

[not_manbot]

Originally posted by suddenpaint
well...icd products imho suck already...and i was happy SP was sueing them so n00bs didnt buy them...impulses are better guns than Bushies...no matter how many problems they have lets see impies=no lpr stock, FSDO, heavy, large, ugly, have to pay extra for colors, slower, none adjustable trigger, 45* grip, fairly high pressure


bushy b2k3=lpr stock, lighter, smaller, actual milling, fully adjustable trigger, faster, low pressure, easier to work on, an actual warrenty for christssake, very nice frame, no FSDO, and a very good and tightnit community that will help people with their guns

[EvilPopTart]

which is an electronic clone of a spyder.

[®4VËñ_þå¹ñtßå||]

Originally posted by EvilPopTart
which is an electronic clone of a spyder.

Might as well say that about all stacked tube blowbacks huh?

That includes your beloved Impys, oh yeah angels too but were not going to get that in-depth. Simply because we all know WDP's quality is so ridiculously higher than Kingman there’s no point in comparison, same goes for ICD.

I chose not to get into any threads about Smart Parts idiocy; this is probably the only one I have been in.

Smart Parts is a dieing company, the only thing resting on the company (prior to release of '03 Shocker) was their Freak, and Impulse. Without these they would be bankrupt, so in order to help there company out. Why not try suing other companies in a last effort to help production of the '03 Shocker and Nerve.

Its bull, but I don't thing they will win. There are too many companies that are higher than SP on the Paintball hierarchy. Hopefully ICD wins, if they do, SP is done...if they can't beat ICD in court than they sure as hell aren't going to have a chance against WDP and other much larger companies.

I don't hate Smart Parts, I love the freak and its one of the only barrels I will use besides a Custom Products. The '03 Shocker looks damn sweet. I’m not boycotting anything either just because it won’t do any good (besides forum people, and tourney players... most people in the paintball community don’t even know wtf is going on).

All we can hope is for Smart Parts to lose...and give best wishes to ICD. (Let the lawyers do the winning)

[EvilPopTart]

Thats pretty much the summary of everything I have said in this thread minus the dying company part. Theoritically speaking, Smart Parts can always go back to making stuff for NASA since obviously the paintball thing isnt working for them. And by the way, good job on not reading the thread there sport. And they arent "my beloved impulses." I wouldnt shoot the reached little things anyway. Futhurmore, the Angel is a completely different design from the Spyder so try to make an intelligent comment before trying to burn me.


have a nice day :)

[ImpyOwner7]

The reason their not coming out with the nerve yet is because they dont want the sells of the 03 shocker to go down. *******es

[®4VËñ_þå¹ñtßå||]

Originally posted by EvilPopTart
Thats pretty much the summary of everything I have said in this thread minus the dying company part. Theoritically speaking, Smart Parts can always go back to making stuff for NASA since obviously the paintball thing isnt working for them. And by the way, good job on not reading the thread there sport. And they arent "my beloved impulses." I wouldnt shoot the reached little things anyway. Futhurmore, the Angel is a completely different design from the Spyder so try to make an intelligent comment before trying to burn me.


have a nice day :)

Sadly buddy, the angel is not really all that different there buddy. Instead of trying to sound like a jackass know what your talking about. Yes I did read the the thread, and I wasn't directing the "beloved impulses" comment to you, but to everyone in the thread.

[not_manbot]

Originally posted by ImpyOwner7
The reason their not coming out with the nerve yet is because they dont want the sells of the 03 shocker to go down. *******es you know this how?

[ImpyOwner7]

because it only makes scence...
Their gonna gome out with another new gun because people will want something brand new or people will buy the nerve instead of the shocker and they will lose alot money...
and the shocker 03 sales are even lower than they expected..

[devilchild1722]

"Sadly buddy, the angel is not really all that different there buddy. Instead of trying to sound like a jackass know what your talking about. "


please elaborate on how they are similar in any way?

[not_manbot]

Originally posted by ImpyOwner7
because it only makes scence...
Their gonna gome out with another new gun because people will want something brand new or people will buy the nerve instead of the shocker and they will lose alot money...
and the shocker 03 sales are even lower than they expected.. just like the pushback of the shocker 2k3 from winter/spring to late summer?

no, it's most likely because SP can't get the damn thing working halfway decent

[EvilPopTart]

Originally posted by ®4VËñ_þå¹ñtßå||
Sadly buddy, the angel is not really all that different there buddy. Instead of trying to sound like a jackass know what your talking about. Yes I did read the the thread, and I wasn't directing the "beloved impulses" comment to you, but to everyone in the thread.

oh please do elablorate on how angels are the same design. this should be good. I havent been able to take one apart (mostly since I dont own one anymore and I never had it around long enough to tinker and no one else around here shoots one really anymore... much less let me touch it) so I dont know all the part differences. But comparing a Spyder to an Angel is like comparing an rotten orange to a golden apple.


and I assumed you were talking to me about the impulses thing because you had be quoted. and I do know what I am talking about... do you?

[®4VËñ_þå¹ñtßå||]

Originally posted by EvilPopTart
oh please do elablorate on how angels are the same design. this should be good. I havent been able to take one apart (mostly since I dont own one anymore and I never had it around long enough to tinker and no one else around here shoots one really anymore... much less let me touch it) so I dont know all the part differences. But comparing a Spyder to an Angel is like comparing an rotten orange to a golden apple.


Take a spyder, take out the hammer assembly and velocity adjuster, now put in a phnuematic ram in there. Next take the gripframe off and put one with a board, battery, 3 way and solenoid. Then take out that lp chamber and put in a reg, connect the parts and you have a timmy.

An angel is different because the 3 way and solenoid are in the top tube behind the bolt and the lpr and hammer/valve assmeblies are in different tubes. The angels electronics board is in the grip and the battery is in the actual gun.

A viking is different than an angel because the solenoid and manifolds are in the tray above the gripframe and the battery in the grip.

Your taking a more basic gun and making it phnuematically operated to control things like dwell, rate of fire, and using a lpr and ram to use the least amount of force to cycle the gun.

Besides a few thing which makes a "specific gun" have their identinty, again I will say most stacked tube blow backs are very similiar. Ill give you that rotton orange to a golden apple, because its very true. I never denied it either, I owned an angel and it rocked. There was no doubt that it was uncompairable to a spyder but basically they shoot the same (physically)

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

Well I have kind of steered away from this topic for a couple weeks, so I am going to jump back into it.

IMHO, Smart Parts is not a dieing company, and the Shocker is going to completely change the company.
And not_manbot, obviously you havent shot a 2k3 Shocker before, or you wouldnt be saying that they do not work half decent. Yes, Smart Parts had some trouble with some specific parts of the gun. Yes, they took extra time to make it perfect. Do you think that all companies just ship out guns without testing them first. They are testing them and making them functional for a reason. For the PLAYER. So they are taking extra time to work out some bugs... Isnt that better off then just shipping the gun out and hoping for the best? And believe me... the Shockers run awesomely. The ones that actually are sold because they have been tested and had the bugs worked out of them run damm near flawlessly.

Also, the fact that Smart Parts isnt bringing out the Nerve yet because of all the court stuff might hold some fact, but no one can be sure. It may have a part to do with it, but I believe its a very small part. Its more or less business. Why put out 2 guns that have bugs in them, and needed to be tested thoroughly, when you can do one at a time? Also, whoever said it would take away from the Shocker sales is right too. They first want to get the Shockers out to the public, and then bust out the Nerve. I am actually VERY enthusiastic about the Nerve. I cant wait till it comes out.

[Treghc]

chances are that SP is just looking to get more money. I bet they're going to wait until Shocker sales die down, then they will release the Nerve to get their production sales skyrocketing again. When you release two guns, the public has the choice between the two and only one will be chosed per person (most of the time). When you only produce one, the public will want that one, until you come out with a new product which you advertise as better and the public will switch over to that new product. Gives the company more money.

[EvilPopTart]

Originally posted by Treghc
chances are that SP is just looking to get more money

and that is all that they are doing here. end of subject.

[not_manbot]

Originally posted by Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman
Well I have kind of steered away from this topic for a couple weeks, so I am going to jump back into it.

IMHO, Smart Parts is not a dieing company, and the Shocker is going to completely change the company.
And not_manbot, obviously you havent shot a 2k3 Shocker before, or you wouldnt be saying that they do not work half decent. Yes, Smart Parts had some trouble with some specific parts of the gun. Yes, they took extra time to make it perfect. Do you think that all companies just ship out guns without testing them first. They are testing them and making them functional for a reason. For the PLAYER. So they are taking extra time to work out some bugs... Isnt that better off then just shipping the gun out and hoping for the best? And believe me... the Shockers run awesomely. The ones that actually are sold because they have been tested and had the bugs worked out of them run damm near flawlessly.

Also, the fact that Smart Parts isnt bringing out the Nerve yet because of all the court stuff might hold some fact, but no one can be sure. It may have a part to do with it, but I believe its a very small part. Its more or less business. Why put out 2 guns that have bugs in them, and needed to be tested thoroughly, when you can do one at a time? Also, whoever said it would take away from the Shocker sales is right too. They first want to get the Shockers out to the public, and then bust out the Nerve. I am actually VERY enthusiastic about the Nerve. I cant wait till it comes out. oh no the shockers are a decent gun but how do they explain the spool valve open bolt operatation? why'd they lie?

[Dave]

Smart Parts is far from a dying company, thier sales #'s are insane, and they continue to rise. Thier expantion to the West Coast is a pretty good sign too.

The reason that the Nerve isn't released yet is that they just spent a year getting the shocker ready, and there are parts of it they are still working on (vision, inline reg) I'm sure once that's done and the design team gets a little time on their hands they'll tackle the Nerve project. That and the fact that it doesn't make sense to release 2 products in the same market(upper end marker) at the same time.

You guys complain about Smart Parts doing everything for money...what should a company that employs hundreds of people do? Just exist for the fun of the game? You're insane.

For the record SP has not Sued Us(gen-e) and we continue to have a very good relationship with them and their employee's.

Dave/ Gen-E, Toxic Performance

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

not_manbot - You are right. But then again... do you think that you could come up with a completely new design for a gun that originally looked like a shoe box with a barrel and a handle? I mean look how small the Shocker 2k3 is compared to the older Shocker. From what I understand they had a REALLY hard time making it closed bolt. If you read up on it, they kind have done. Its an open bolt design, but the bolt has a brief pause which somewhat simulates a closed bolt feature. I know its not perfect, but I mean my God! It still shoots just as flat and accurate as the old Shockers, they are lighter, look A LOT nicer in my opinion, and they shoot A LOT faster. Honestly, I dont really care if the gun isnt TRUELLY a closed bolt design. It still rips and is accurate like no other.

[Treghc]

Originally posted by Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman
but the bolt has a brief pause which somewhat simulates a closed bolt feature.

Every single marker on the face of the planet that has a bolt does exactly that. That's what a bolt is for.

[EvilPopTart]

Originally posted by Treghc
Every single marker on the face of the planet that has a bolt does exactly that. That's what a bolt is for.

exactly. I hope he reads that post and understand how foolish that made him.


Dave- Forgive me if I am wrong, but dosent Gen-X just make cocker aftermarket parts like pnuematics, regs, frames, and bolts? If you guys dont make an electric marker I wouldnt see why they would go after you.

[TeamDescent]

Originally posted by Dave
Dave/ Gen-E, Toxic Performance

Gen-X what?
Actually they make a custom Impulse :xeyed: and Trix. Check the site for it all.

[not_manbot]

Originally posted by EvilPopTart
exactly. I hope he reads that post and understand how foolish that made him.


Dave- Forgive me if I am wrong, but dosent Gen-X just make cocker aftermarket parts like pnuematics, regs, frames, and bolts? If you guys dont make an electric marker I wouldnt see why they would go after you. he works for Gen-E not Gen-X and Gen-X now makes an electro cocker anyways

[Treghc]

Generation E is the company that used to sell/produce Matrix markers before DYE bought out those rights. Gen-E still makes awesome aftermarket parts for Matrices and has great customer service.

Two things you won't necessarily get from Gen-X (the mainly autococker company), unless you buy their guns ;)

[EvilPopTart]

oh sorry I misread. damn these stupid eyes of mine. thanks for clearing it up with a good attitude. :)

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

If you want to call me foolish go right ahead... I just read it from HSW site... so if you want to call me foolish, I guess you are calling them foolish too... I tried to find where they said it on their site, but they have new news about the Shocker and its internals, so I cant find where they said it. I will keep looking. I was just trying to give an explanation to the person about how it works, and from what I understand the pause is not like OTHER guns. Its different to make it more like a closed bolt marker.

[Treghc]

I think das explained that the bolt does not stop moving... this means it doesn't "pause." But, because of the spool valve design, it is literally impossible for air to be let out before the bolt is all the way forward. Here's a matrix animation to give you an idea of what I'm saying (since they use the same spool valve design, they're almost identical)

http://redneckwarriors.8m.com/matrix_animation.gif

[Dave]

As far as I know both the shocker and matrix are open bolt in ever sense of the word. The way I see it, if a bolt is releasing air in its forward travel it's open bolt. If the gun goes bang and the bolt then travels backward to chamber a ball it's closed bolt.

If you've ever looked at the new, less exciting Matrix box, there is no reference to "closed bolt operation" like the old one has.

Gen-E continues to sell Matrix's and we make a whole lovely line of aftermarket parts and accessories for many snazzy markers, including the Matrix, Model 98, Impulse, Angel, etc.

thanks!
dave

[EvilPopTart]

Originally posted by Treghc
I think das explained that the bolt does not stop moving... this means it doesn't "pause." But, because of the spool valve design, it is literally impossible for air to be let out before the bolt is all the way forward. Here's a matrix animation to give you an idea of what I'm saying (since they use the same spool valve design, they're almost identical)

http://redneckwarriors.8m.com/matrix_animation.gif

i hope Gen-E (i guess) sues the hell out of Smart parts...:dodgy:

[Eyecare]

The following quote is from the '03 Shocker manual: The Shocker is an open bolt, seal forward marker. Seal Forward Technology (SFT) is unique to the 2003 Shocker. SFT allows the Shocker to be an open bolt marker, while still having the breech seal a split second before the ball is fired, like a closed bolt. By sealing the breech before the ball is fired, the Shocker is able to have accuracy and trajectory like a traditional closed bolt, but also the rates of fire and simplicity of an open bolt. Of course, this means that the Shocker is an OPEN BOLT gun. But if they patent their "SFT technology" first maybe they can sue the other companies for using like technology? :P

[Eyecare]

Originally posted by Dave
The way I see it, if a bolt is releasing air in its forward travel it's open bolt. If the gun goes bang and the bolt then travels backward to chamber a ball it's closed bolt. It's my understanding that a closed bolt is one that has it's breech closed while at rest while in an open bolt it's open. That's why I think closed bolts have the potential to be a bit more accurate on the first shot or any time the gun is shooting slow enough for the gun to be still before firing. Once you get a close bolt firing at higher rofs, things are moving so fast that there really isn't a huge difference in performance as has been shown in studies.

[Treghc]

Originally posted by EvilPopTart
i hope Gen-E (i guess) sues the hell out of Smart parts...:dodgy:

Gen-E and Smart Parts have a good relationship between each other. Why would gen-e want to sue smart parts in the first place? First, they can't. The spool valve design is older than you think and is not only used on Matrices. Secondly, you can't patent something that has been out for over a year to the general public. Thirdly, SP didn't exactly copy the design. They actually used their heads and made a better one. The design is cleaner and requires less parts than the Matrix one.

[Dave]

Dye owns the patent to the matrix spool valve design, thus is theirs to protect/ worry about.

we're not suing anybody, anytime soon.

dave/ gen-e

[Impact101]

Forgive me for being an idiot if i am...
Hasn't the paintball industry in the past remained relitively free of patents? Autococker have been copied many times but no patent has been put on the autococker mode of operation but the name has been copyrighted or something like that. Could you give me the details on the history of patenting in the paintball world?

[Eyecare]

Doc's patent FAQ and related article that I've linked to in my sig explains some of the history. There have been a few attempts at suits before (like imitating AC bodies)but nothing came of them.

[EvilPopTart]

Originally posted by Treghc
Secondly, you can't patent something that has been out for over a year to the general public.


right... ok then can someone explain to me how Smart Parts is doing this? Or does the expansion of the patent go under this rule?

[Treghc]

expanding a patent is different. If you have something patented, it's yours for 10 years. You can do anything you want with it, as long as the government decides it's okay. Expanding a patent is perfectly legal if it's OK'd by the proper authorities.

[madgoat33]

Originally posted by Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman
What they are doing is perfectly legal though. I am not condoning what SP is doing, but they are well within their legal rights to sue ICD. If you would read up on this stuff, you would know that SP talked to many electro manufacturers years ago, i.e. AGD and WDP, about settling so they didnt have to take them to court. The companies laughed in their faces. SP is just looking after what legally belongs to them, and they are going out to get the money. Like I said, I am not condoning them, but Adam and Billy Gardener are business men. Business is exactly what it is. BUSINESS. They are looking out for themselves.

what i don't understand is how they are patenting crap that they didn't invent and that was already out.....

[Gary_BLINGIN_Coleman]

It doesnt matter if they didnt invent it first. They were the first to file and get the patent. Other companies that had the technology just didnt get the patent first, but I really cant think of a whole lot of companies that had the same kind of technology at the time the first Shocker came out.

[EvilPopTart]

I know the original Angel was a compeditor.



Yea the whole who gets it first has been going on a long while. Even Thomas Edison has gotten shafted out of a couple of his ideas.

[impyrunner246]

There are different story's and sides to this. I do believe it was a good move buiss. wise. While ethicly i dont condone it for the one reason that it may hinder the growth of paintball.I do hope everything gets resolved , but if i was SP i would have done the same thing.Call me a thief or whatever you want .. but its nothing personal , just buiss. FYI im not a fan of the people that run SP but of there goods.

[EvilPopTart]

welcome to 4 months ago.

[devilchild1722]

i totally forgot about this thread, but since i somehow stumbled back to it........

in november i won a 2003 shocker, it's a GREAT gun if you like getting 700 shots off of a 68/45 or blowing seals in the middle of a game. also, it's got so much blowback that it wont feed without a halo, balls will actually hover in the feedneck of an egg. needless to say, i got rid of it pretty fast.

as for the shocker being unique in sealing the chamber a split second before a shot, rainmakers did this first. in my mind its a sad day when you steal a design feature from brass eagle then claim to have invented it yourself. in fact, you could even make a stacked tube blow-back back making the bolt long enough to seal the ball in the barrel before the hammer hits the valve, but give the hammer enough back travel so the bolt clears the feedtube during recock.

in reality, the "patented" feature smart parts calls "SFT" is an o-ring strategically placed on the tip of the bolt. real innovative, because nobody has ever done that before. maybe it's a "patented" o-ring that makes balls shoot farther, flatter, and more acurately than guns without o-rings on the tips of their bolts.

[shulacker]

uhh, this has all been discussed on the shocker forum's, go there if you wanna *****, but people know all of this already, and they can all be easily fixed

[morca007]

Originally posted by EvilPopTart
Im not hating on the products, most of whom are of decent quality, I am hating on the boneheads who run the company and are calling the shots.
me too

[seemlessstate]

this has nothing to do with the nerve but i love the piggly wiggly link poptart....!

[ricecrispi28]

I think in the paintball we been used to all these sypder clones and clone this clone that, its not a problem.
It's good for us and not so great for companies. But the paintball industry is growing and growing. There's a big enough pie for everyone and innovation is the key to success. SP just wants a monoply over electronics-pnuematics and paintball.
These broad copyrights are funny. It's like patent a tire or a light or a fridge. There patent so broad I'm surprised they were given out. It's also why I think these companies aren't winning, but they are just trying to run small companies into the ground with legal fees

I must add the ICD issues is just ludicrious. Suing a company because of a patent is okay. It's legal but they cloned ICD's gun, pathetic and predatory. That's why SP stinks,

[BigCountry77]

Originally posted by Treghc
I think das explained that the bolt does not stop moving... this means it doesn't "pause." But, because of the spool valve design, it is literally impossible for air to be let out before the bolt is all the way forward. Here's a matrix animation to give you an idea of what I'm saying (since they use the same spool valve design, they're almost identical)

http://redneckwarriors.8m.com/matrix_animation.gif

If you are familiar with the laws of physics youll see that it does pause.....anything reversing its motion pauses for a miniscule split second in time...although it probably isnt long enough for the balls motion to stop, therefore its still open bolt...and in theory if the shocker was called closed bolt any open bolt marker could be marketed as such...unless the shocker has timing to pause the bolt in the forward position longer...and/or only release air at that point in time

[CharlieBerger]

Its all about business and the $Bling$.

I hope SP cashes in on the violatin' bastards!

[xx69xx]

Sp shouldnt be eliminating competition like that cause if they do pretty soon all of paint ball will be owned by one comapny.and i wont have it like that.

[PinkPaiintMan]

sp sucks dick get a life anyone who owns the shocker i bought one and it shot like sh1t so say what you will i will never buy another sp gun again

P.S. if it has first shot drop of bounces like hell has no range is a gas hog it is not a good gun.

[Ineedanewgun]

SP might be the smartest company in the paintball industry business wise. Business doesn't call for morales, it calls for smart moves to undermine your oppoents. Look at the microsoft scandal. Almost every computer company i can think of uses Windows or some type of windows complatible programing. Impulses might be blain coloring, but they shoot nice as hell too. So shove it.

[paintentheworld689]

Well dang, looks like i shoulda have joined this fight earlier, arguing is so much fun.

Heres what i think, take it or leave it. A while back someone said everyone in this world is a materialist. Truest words i have ever heard. ALL people are selfish and those who claim to help others only do it becuase it makes them feel good ( a property of selfishness.)
I don't know the facts on this lawsuit and i wont claim to. But it sounds to me like smart parts is taking what is rightfully theirs, why, bcz they can and they want what everyone else does, to be rich.
So what if marker prices jump a little? Aren't they already high??
The people who own these high price markers are either rich kids or people who have jobs and can pay for them and wont mind a slight price increase.
Anyone who says smart parts products sucks is ignorant. For the price, their stuff is really good. Mostly the only people who dis smart parts are the people who have Angels and Timmy's and other high end electros, and yea SP guns will suck compared to them. Just like i hate every gun under my cocker, doesnt make them suck, its just not as good as what i own. Either that or the person has had a problem with a smart parts product, but hey, this is an industry everything is hit or miss. Sometimes you get a good one, sometimes you get a bad one, some times its user error. I havent seen a person not have a problem with a smart parts gun, however, the same can be said about EVERY GUN, you can dispute that with "o well my gun never has any problems blahblah blah" the point is every marker at some point in time will have something that you dont like about it, if thats the case, fix it with something you do like and quit whinning to manufactoror for faulty products, u get what you pay for.
As for the people boycottin and quitting paintball, i believe another person said anyone who quits paintball bcz of some freakin lawsuit that wont affect us, is a moran and didn't love the game anyway. If you already own one of these guns thats under fire bcz of the lawsuit IT WILL NOT AFFECT YOU!!


You can call me and idiot and i will most likely agree with you, this fighting is senseless and my only purpose it to try to help people see from both sides of the fence.
Som smart parts products are good, some have their downfalls.
Their lawsuit is legal, but dumb and o well if they win, power to the ppl who want them to.
O well if they loose, power to the ppl that want them to.
My only point is why should it matter to people who it doesnt affect. Smart parts will not change what they are doin because we are whinning about how dumb they are, nor will they stop what they are doing because of a few retards who quit paintball because of what they are doing.
I say anyone who is dumb enough to acually have an argument about this needs to get up from the computer, load of a hopper and some pods, fill your tank , and go to a feild and play. Paintball isnt about arguing, its about fun. WHats smarts parts is doin will not affect your playing, so stop worrying about it.

[stifler]

First off let me say that I am completely indifferent to the SP lawsuits but it has more effect than you think- AKA stopped making the ****ing vikings and excals because of this. A company stopped making a really good gun because of this- that a pretty big side effect. But I don't really care because I don't shoot a viking anyway. I shoot an 03 shocker and I think everything else SP makes is ****. Impulses are slow, heavy ugly. I measured SS inserts with a bore micrometer and not a single size was right. They were either smaller than what their size indicator said or they were larger. So I shoot Stiffi barrels-4 of em. By the way if you are looking for a good barrel go with stiffi

I think painttheworld made a good point, stop your bitchin cause no matter if SP wins or loses it won't affect you (unless you plan on getting a viking).I don't like their products-except for my 03 shocker- but I could care less wether SP sticks around 20 years from now or
if they go about of business tomorrow I really don't give a ****. And you really shouldn't care either. I'm not really concerned about the "well being" of paintball. So long as I can go hurt people every Sunday I'm satisfied.

Devilchild you little bitch, you never owned a shocker. How do I know that? Maybe, just maybe .. it's because i've owned one for 6 months now. I've never blew a seal in the middle of game or at all, period. And that is with all the stock seals and I have shot over 20 cases of paint through it.. The most obvious lie you told (beside the fact that you said you actualy owned an 03 shocker)is the remark about blowback. Hmm. the shocker has no blowback-at all- period. That's not an opinion it's a fact, the blowback just isn't there. But since you're an airsmith and a ref I'm sure you done the blowback test before, right? You now the one when you take a sheet of toilet paper or tissue, lay it over the feedneck, then shoot your gun. The shocker is the only gun I've ever shot where the tissue doesn't move AT ALL. But even though it can't even make a ripple in a tissue it's strong enough to hold painballs up right? Well that makes sense. You ****tard the shocker bolt doesn't even have an oring on the tip of it, The SFT oring is located right after the breech.Shut the **** up bitch

[paintentheworld689]

AMEN STIFLER!!!!! Now can we get back to the topic at hand, does anyone know anything WORTH WHILE bout this nerve? Other than why they arent realeasing it, bcz we all oviously know why.

[sleepyflyd8806]

You all are so cool i love mnen

[Dave]

You guys ever think that SP hasn't released the Nerve yet because it sn't finished yet, not because of some crazy conspiracy involving legalities, etc. From what I know they are very close, they have working internals, and the externals are done too, now they are putting the two together.

SP has plenty of stuff to keep their machines running and cash coming in, they really aren't in any rush to get this thing out.

dave

[sleepyflyd8806]

im w/ dave and the post above his...i dont even know who did it lol but yea id rather wait a while before it comes out then have them rush it and it have bugs...