VAG in leesburg

[mrsexy]

alot of ppl play at pevs in leesburg but not too many ppl come out to VAG maybe ppl dont kno about it ? :confused: but ne ways i think that evryone with in 100 mile radius who plays speedball shud come out to vag saturday and sunday because im sick of not havin ne speedballaz out there

[MilDog]

I had a horrible experience at VAG and I will NEVER patronize that field again.:mad:

[mrsexy]

wut was yur horrible experience

[2k2E]

if your looking for speedballerz, then drive down the road 2 miles to Pevs@AG

[MilDog]

The owner made it a practice of SCREAMING at his employees.
The refs would not even walk on to the speedball field , because they were too scared of being shot.
The field regulars had to be bunkered in the neck before they would leave the field.
Wiping was an accepted and blatantly practiced behavior.

There is a reason nobody plays at VAG. Pev's is a far superior facility, and the worse refs at Pev's are far better than any I saw at VAG.

[retartedpaintballer]

people know its there............ its just that there are two paintball fields very close together, giving people a choice. Between Pev's @ AG and VAG there isn't much to draw people to VAG. and yea if you want to play speedball come out to pev's...... try it if you don't like it continue going to vag

[p8ntballn2]

If you really want the real speedball experience, Pev's @ AG has what you want...... VAG is no comparison to the facility at Pevs @ AG... their air system is like 5 tanks and on a good day, you get 4000 psi in ur tank..(on a really good day)... O... and i forgot they are $1 cheaper for w/o play, Pev's @ AG is $15, trust me the extra $1 is worth it,

Hail Delta Farce!!

[retartedpaintballer]

yea compare the two barrel fields for speedball at VAG to the 2 hyperball fields and AIRBALL that we have at pev's. Plus the fact that speedball is open all day at Pev's............ and then that Pev's always has people wanting to play speedball

[azn-pimp]

this past weekend i played at PEVs@AG for the first time...

i crave speedball and the hyperball and airball fields overwhelmed my craving!!!!!

there is were people at hyperball all day and they was so good!!!
i played at VAG for awhile but since PEVs@AG opened i havent seen many there...
great field, and it shall be my new home field that and splatterbrothers :P

[retartedpaintballer]

good call

[iMPy512]

Originally posted by mrsexy
not too many ppl come out to VAG maybe ppl dont kno about it ?

They know its there, but they know Pevs @ Ag is about a mile down the road and always has plenty of people out there:)

[mrsexy]

yea but the only reason me and my team havent been too pevs too play is because evry one tells us the hyperball is never open and that the sponsored teams are on it all day if it was open all day to regular team ballers we wud be out there

[Q THE GURU]

well they are misinformed.. hyper is open all day everyday- not both fields but at least one. Most of the time the Ultimate Air field is up as well.. and walk-ons can jump in and play all they want.

[Arab with a gun]

and to add on top of that walk-ons hold priority over team practicing on the air field......

[VApaintballer400]

...Kenny?

[2k2E]

yea, thats kenny

[shermin8or]

i heard VAG had a new field or something new done to their barrels?

[p8ntballn2]

that field will not be there for long, cuz chris has sold that land... and will be out of there soon... not too long b4 other sorrounding fields are run out of business..

[shermin8or]

like who?????????

[p8ntballn2]

hmmm.... thats a hard one.. what other fields are in the area? skyline is not close.. and the people up there are cool as hell..... sue is great and has a great place out there.... Gotta Holla @ Northmountain Paintball.... so much space out there ed... you could have a freakin PSP/NPPL event there and have room for a big game.....hogback needs to keep up w/ the times and get a airball field if they haven't already.. and get some better speedball fields.... from what i've heard..... the "barrel field" is really small from some of the younger players that come to Pev's @ AG

[retartedpaintballer]

Originally posted by p8ntballn2
not too long b4 other sorrounding fields are run out of business..

vag, hogback, and pevs @ ag.................... those are the fields in the area....... if he's saying vag is getting run out of buissness...... and the only other option is hogback since pevs at ag isn't gonna run itself outta buissness then "other surrounding fields" = hogback

[p8ntballn2]

finally... someone that understands what i'm sayin.... too many retarded people in this world w/ no common sense

[DarkAngel2.1VA]

im sorry dyer please forgive me you ball thursday?

[p8ntballn2]

dont know... prob.. w/ my phantom

[azn-pimp]

how is the weekday turnout at pevs@vag??

[retartedpaintballer]

it's pretty good for walk-ons, but there's not always enough people wanting to play hyper to have it open all day...... there's normally some team guys up there playing but that's not open to regular walkons

[Arab with a gun]

Originally posted by azn-pimp
how is the weekday turnout at pevs@vag??


Thats PEVS@AG brovnah, not VAG

[Vagabond Soldier]

Then may I make a suggestion to the Pev@AG workers. Tell people that they have the option to go up to the speedball fields before splitting everyone up.

Here is what happened last Sunday...

I got to the field at the start of lunch. After lunch they called all the walkon together and sent the groups into the different woodfields. My group went down and played in the river. After the first game I got to talking with some of the players that were definitely not dressed for wooded play. The players told me that the staff said that the speedball fields would be opening up at 2:00 and that after we finished the next game we were going to go play a game or two up on them. After the second game a couple of us decided to just go up there and wait for the rest of the group. When we got there we noticed getting ready to play. Well we jumped right in. Our group showed up about three games later and played a couple games. Then the refs that were with our original group rounded everyone up and took them back into the woods. I want to make this next point perfectly clear, they were NOT given the option of staying behind. This didn't bother me much at the time since, well, 30 on a side built for 10 gets kind of hairy at times, but it does bring up a couple points. We were told that the field was not open the entire day for walk-ons. When the group that I was with did show up they were not given the option to stay. It was great at the time, probably for most all concerned but not the right thing. Lastly when I showed up and the teams divided I wasn't even told the speedball fields were an option for me.

Now after hearing that they are open, more than likely I will go out this weekend but I will ask specifically to play up there. I like wood play but I hone my skills on the speedball fields and after last weekend it is apparent to me that they need a good bit of honing. Oh and by the way, I had a blast when I got up there.

[retartedpaintballer]

was there a ref up at hyper or were they team guys playing pick-up games......... because unless there's a ref, not a team player acting as a ref but an actual black and white wearing ref, then walk-ons are not allowed to play with them. they are allowed to play up there without a ref because they are all on pev's sponsored teams. chances are if you weren't given an option then there was no ref up there and you technically shouldn't have been allowed to play those three games you mentioned playing

[Vagabond Soldier]

I don't know there was a big guy with a red shirt that read Pev@AG Staff, as for the refs in striped shirts; I was not impressed with them. I have seen better refs; maybe IAO drained a lot of them away last week I don't know, I just know that last Sunday was not a shining moment.

And I played a lot more than three games up there.

I'll pose this question then also, what good is a field if you can never play on it? There is a good number of guys that don't belong to any team that would ask the exact same question. I mean how can there not be a demand for speedball at the 'better' field if the old field back in Woodbridge always had speedball games going on? See, this is really starting to piss me off. I been hearing how great these speedball fields are at Pev's but all this year they've been 'closed' or 'under repair' for the walk-ons every time I go up there. If I want to play wood ball I'll go to Skyline because I play scenarios up there all the time. Oh and guess what, it takes me the exact same amount of time to get to Skyline as it does to Pevs@AG from Woodbridge because of all the back roads you have to take to get to Pevs field. I'm going to stop now because I am pissed but I hope you see why I am.

[Q THE GURU]

I see why you are pissed too.. All I can say is please believe me when I say this will be addressed and not just forgotten.

Q

[Arab with a gun]

OK to sum this whole thing up before another young judge decides to try and explain everything. Ok it all goes back to histiry of both places, u have Pevs which was know for their speedball and tourneys, i myself worked at pevs in woodbridge almost 3 years ago. what i noticed is that Pevs had woods fields but in those woods fields they were still open areas that were made for the speedballer in mind. Then u have Jim the owner of AG paintball who is all about woods play and could really care about speedball all together , which i could go on for days about explaining examples, but im not going to cause i would liek to keep and secre my job at Pevs @ AG, Ok so u have Pevs whcih equals speedball, and Jim that owns AG that equals woods.

So what happens when Pevs has other things to do like mind his own business investment like 7 chain stores of proshops, well the owner of AG paintball, who has a office at the field , stays in his office and schedules judges for walk-on play but when we get a lot pf people playing in the woods, guess who suffers, SPEEDBALLERS which is not fair at all becase i too agree that those fields shouldnt be wasted.

So the best thing u can do, as a paying player is to go to the front desk at the field, talk to management there and say hey whats the deal with speedball never being open. because things cant or wont be done unless people complain, but please dont complain about reffs there, for once u may see alot of youngs guys, but hey if a certain someone that owns AG and u were one of the senior refs, u think u would wold be working there long.

But anyways to some it all up, give a break to the younger reffs they are trying as hard as they can. and to the whole speedball thing, a problem cant be solved unless it is known about, so either let management know at the field or even tell staff at teh proshop and im sure it will get relayed back to Pev and it will be fixed to satifty the customers

well im out of here hope this helped

anonymous

[Vagabond Soldier]

Originally posted by Arab with a gun

So the best thing u can do, as a paying player is to go to the front desk at the field, talk to management there and say hey whats the deal with speedball never being open. because things cant or wont be done unless people complain, but please dont complain about reffs there, for once u may see alot of youngs guys, but hey if a certain someone that owns AG and u were one of the senior refs, u think u would wold be working there long.

But anyways to some it all up, give a break to the younger reffs they are trying as hard as they can. and to the whole speedball thing, a problem cant be solved unless it is known about, so either let management know at the field or even tell staff at teh proshop and im sure it will get relayed back to Pev and it will be fixed to satifty the customers

well im out of here hope this helped

anonymous

See I liked Q's response it wasn't making excuses it was recognizing are reacting.

Now, since this is the way you want to go then let's go. When is it the responsibility of a paying customer to tell a business owner how to run his business? Simple it's not. It is up to the business owner to solicit this information. Go out and ask how are things, what can be done to make it better, go out and see what is going on out in the field. It's called running a business for a reason. Some of the best fields I've seen have been those that the management got off there third point of contact and went out onto the field and saw what was going on and were asking questions. If the management of Pev's@AG will not do this then they deserve to fail. Consider this, most people that have a bad experience with a field just never go back and if I don't see things change by the time I go through the rest of my paint, I won't.

Now you brought up refs and I was going to leave it at what I said earlier but I can not and will not excuse the behavior I witnessed last Sunday. I saw one ref tell a player to shoot another ref and the player did. The player didn't know any better he was a newbie, well the player found his mark, right in the refs groin. That ref left the field crying. This happened in front of the players so what do you think all these players and now anyone that reads this thread impression is of these refs? And that is just one. Another was I got hit in the gun. I called myself out as well as the ref behind me. I stood up and put my gun over my head. Looked over to those that were shooting me to make sure they saw that I was out and they did. With my gun raised bent down to pick up one of my pods. As I stood up I started getting shot again. I just started walking off the field and told the ref he needed to do something about them overshooting. The response I got back was amazing to me even now, 'Well they didn't hit you.' First this wasn't true since I had to look through the goggle shot to see the ref, remember I was out from a gun shot not a goggle. The second and more disturbing was what he said, well they didn't hit you acknowledging that yes I had been overshot but the bright side they actually didn't hit me. I'm sorry if you keep shooting at someone that has been called out that is overshooting weather or not you hit them. Well I just walked off because it was a lost cause. Some would say this is just a freak happening and that it is not the norm. Well, seems like very time I go up there I run into more and more of the same.

I even tried to fix it one time, I tried to become a ref when Pev's had there Woodbridge field. I was told that they were always looking for experienced refs. Well I spent a year on staff at the field I used to play at when I was stationed in Germany. Not only did I ref but I help ran the check-in and did a little airsmithing on the rental guns. I figure that makes me experienced so I gave them my number and they said they would call me and I never received a phone call. Maybe I should have been a little more aggressive in asking but if they wanted experienced and older refs then I would have received a phone call. No I think they don't want older more experience refs. I think the younger ones are more cost effective for them.

I will give you this, there not the worst I've seen.

[p8ntballn2]

First off........ if you are having problems w/ refs.... the only way to fix the problem is to send an email to todd, pev, or jim... with a name and/or jersey number..... thats y the refs wear the black and white stripped jerseys w/ NUMBERS on them.... all of the refs are assigend a number... to fix the problem w/ complaints...

2nd off..... it just so happend that i reffed hyperball on saturday... there were 2 refs up there all day... and i am pretty sure there was some refs up there all day on sunday, i know this because jim assigns them every day to go up there.... and the refs are not the greatest and all of them aren't the sharpest tool in the shed.... give'em a break, you weren't perfect when you were 15-17??? were you ?????? i didn't think so .. you were no angel....... point being... dont talk if you cant come up w/ numbers / names....

[Vagabond Soldier]

WTF do you think I'm doing right now? It is obvious to everyone that they’re Pev’s@AG staff on this tread. Like I said most people if they have a bad experience are just going to leave and not come back. There not going to bother with numbers, there not going to bother with e-mail, there just going to leave. Count yourself blessed that I even bother to post this stuff.

As for Sunday the 20th of July, here is the more detail, the BS I posted happened at the field with the river through it. Now if Jim is tracking who he assigns where then he can figure out who it was since there were only three of them there, which in the field’s defense is more than you would expect to find at other fields. There were no refs with striped shirts at the speedball field only the guy with the red staff shirt. I had no problems with him and actually enjoyed myself quite nicely.

As for perfect refs, shoot I'm not perfect even now. I don't ask for people to be what I'm not. What I do expect is professionalism and a commitment to the job and safety. That is what I expected out of people when I was in high school and that is what I expect of the soldiers under me now and I definitely expect it of someone getting paid to do a job. I don't care how old they are I will bite the head off of someone older than me that isn't doing there job and I will fall on my own sword for someone that does there job even if there 10 years old. What I hate is excuses, and that is all I ever see when I bring up ref issues.

[retartedpaintballer]

my first post about not always having enough people for hyper was in response to a question about the WEEKDAY turnout not weekend. my second post was a quickly thrown together probable situation, which turned out not to be your situation. if the refs didn't mention that hyper was open to walkons all day it was an honest mistake. keep in mind that most walk on players want to play woods and that most players who come to play speedball are aware that it's open to walk on players. reffing: "anonymous" i'm not new, i passed you leaving today when i turned off of sycolin if you remember who that was....... experience is gained not created by wearing a white and black shirt so let them gain their experience and let them know what you feel should have been done............................. oh and as for you getting overshot, it happens, a paintball field is loud and just because both you and the ref called you out doesn't mean everybody heard. had the overshooting been intentional (and it's not hard to tell when it is) then something would have been done about it. if you wanna go with the theory that only live players ever get shot then ref's wouldn't get shot either yet on any given day i get shot anywhere from 2-10+ times not complaining just saying that just because you're not live doesn't mean you won't get shot and i haven't read any excuses on here, i see reasons so that you can understand why things are the way they instead of only being able to say that sucks and i don't like it

[Vagabond Soldier]

I've played nine years now, been the victim of many overshootings, I know overshooting is one of the hardest calls to make and usually it isn't the shooter's fault. There is many times when you should expect to get shot a lot and even when you’re dead. My point was that the ref recognized that it did happen but failed to do anything about it. That's what irritates me, he saw a foul committed and did nothing about it. I didn't want him to go over and kick the guy out; I just wanted him to warn them. You know a little 'WATCH WHAT YOUR SHOOTING AT' or 'THAT PLAYERS ALREADY ELEMINATED' or something to let them know what they did was wrong. But all I got was 'well they didn't hit you' as if I was lucky I didn't get more. Oh and I noticed that no one has even touched the ref shooting incident. Can't figure a 'reason' for that one?

As for experience I like a little quote a drill sergeant told me when I was private in basic training. Experience is a bad teacher, you only learn the lesson after the test is given and the cost is always too high. Think about that for a second.

That's great that most players know the speedball fields are open but that doesn't help the players that don't know. Q THE GURU said it would be fixed and I'm happy with that. And that is where it should have been left.


Now I want to respond to p8ntballn2 last post.
ok.. if you decide to leave and not come back... i can tell you this much.... there is someone right behind you that wants to play paintball.... gettin shot is part of the sport.. dont like gettin shot extra.. play furthur back... simple

What a great representation of Pev's@AG. I wonder if I did E-mail Mr. Pev your response and he knew who you were what exactly would he do. See, I'm representing myself so what ever I say I will stand behind because I believe what I say has some merit and I'm not insulting. But since you claim to be an employee of Pev's@AG you’re representing him as well. I would imagine he wouldn't be too happy because if some was representing me and my business like that they wouldn't be working for me for long. Oh and I didn't say I was leaving the sport just your field and I'm not even do that, yet. As for the player behind me, well, keep that kind of attitude and eventually there won't be another player. And as I stated before I've played for nine years now, I think I have grasp the concept that getting shot is part of the sport. Thank you for that bit of incite but field position won't prevent you from getting shot any less.

BTW do you think you can complete a full sentence without using the … ? I’m just trying to help you out a little.

[retartedpaintballer]

you dont' get overshot as much in the back because you do not need to cross through anyone's lanes and get shot while they're trying to shoot other people so field position does matter when talking about getting overshot

[lopez17]

I don't post much but I felt I should hop into the thread here. Let me state up front that I don't work at the field, have never worked at the field/store or for Pevs or AG in general. I'm just a guy that plays walk on most every weekend. I've seen good and bad refs out there (more of the latter of late but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt because they're new). The last few weeks that I've been out Junior, Dan or whoever gets assigned to do the safety briefings has done a pretty good job of letting the players know that the speedball and airball fields are open to walkons. I can't speak for the downtimes or closures since I play and enjoy woods and don't much play up there. When I want to though I've always been welcomed up there and had no trouble finding a game. (With the exception of earlier in the spring when they were reseeding...and I can understand them being closed for that...)

I don't envy the Pevs management. It can't be an easy task logistically to handle 300+ people a weekend (with walk-ons, team practices and private groups). They do a better job than any other field than I've ever played at and I've found them extremely responsive to emails and even more so to verbal inquiries. If I have a gripe or suggestion for improvement I have no qualms about telling Jim, Dan, Junior, or pretty much anyone that I see around. (The one time I didn't get that luxury I stopped in on Monday at the Fairfax store, mentioned my problem to Todd and it got resolved...like he got on the phone with me in the store and had it worked out by the time I left) The problem usually gets resolved if they know. I also play there regularly and that visability does help, it shows that I'm going to be loyal to their business. I also try to keep positive about negative things. "Hey <insert management member here> it's nice that you guys have the speedball fields...what are the chances we can get a few refs and open em up in the afternoon?" People were complaining in the spring about lunch taking an hour and a half because the refs were slow...Jim got an email or two and corrected the problem.

The guys that lurk here, I think I probably know who a few of them are from some of the things they've said, are on the staff at Pevs@AG but they're not in the management and aren't necessarily empowered to make changes at the field...and that's got to be frustrating to them since many of them have lots of paintball experience (some at a young age). They do the best they can. I'm of the mindset that it's our business as customers and players to offer input to the management about how to make things better since it's in everyone's best interests. Especially those of us who are older...we're a voice for many youths who may not be empowered or vocal enough to say what they think.

I've been frustrated with the reffing and extremely pleased at the same time. I've been sure to let the management know both cases. I wasn't real impressed with the walkon refs on Sat...they were still a bit raw and I said some stuff to the mgt. (not criticisms...but areas for improvement) and in the afternoon they were 10 times better. I've also had groups of refs who did a kick *** job. Ben (and 3 others) did a private group of 70+ I had in April. They did such a good job I tipped the 4 of them $20 a head, my work group had a blast and those refs made me look good in front of my professional peers. Now...if a guy really sucks...I'll get his name and number and tell the management the exact situation and what I'd like done. I had one ref that was so complacent it wasn't funny. I took more bonus balls in one walkon game than I ever have total to date. The real clincher is when the ref walked over...did a paintcheck and called me out...I stood up...with him right there...took 3 more shots. Then 2 more...then 2 more. The one that PO'd me was when I got hit one-two in the mask. I was about ready to kill someone at that point ... I was deciding between the kid and the ref before I calmed down. ;)

Now all this being said...Pevs@AG has some things things to resolve...but they're still the best thing going in NoVA. Hogback is just a waste. The refs are 10 times worse than Pevs and the fields and parking suck. VAG is the closest thing to organized outlaw ball that I've ever seen and honestly they've lost market share due to poor management than anything else. They seriously could have made that whole place into a HUGE paintball mecca. They have certain advantages that Pevs@AG doesn't have. They're right off a main road. They have ample parking and equivalent space of AG...they just didn't do anything with what they had...didn't advertise and they don't have the luxury of having stores to get players to their field and build revenue. Only problem is that they're sitting on land that's recently been sold. (Though technically the land Pevs@AG is on, is leased from some rich Arab guy in one of the Middle East countries but he's making $$ and after 9-11 he may have a hard time getting back into the country.)

Honestly I think the merger of Pevs and AG has been a bit rough at times but I've seen lots of improvements. The improvements on some of the woods fields is great. The parking situation is better but not perfect. They are getting more efficient and at some point I see everything coming together into a fine, first rate facility. (Hell...they put up misting heads along the pavillion area for the players to cool themselves down with...I've NEVER seen that at a paintball park.) I sympathize with lots of the comments you've made Vagabond Soldier and hopefully I'll get to match up with you at some point on the field or get to chat with you at the park. As a fellow customer I'll also pass along your comments to the management/staff next week when I go out to play.

[Vagabond Soldier]

First and foremost I would like to commend you for an excellent post. You’re probably right I probably should have talked to the management about my complaints and to be honest, they were not really complaints until I read this thread. I started off with a suggestion and a story of what happened on the 20th. Then it started, 'you shouldn't have been' well there is a lot of things in life I shouldn't do or shouldn't have done but I've never been told I shouldn't have played a game during a posted open session. Add to the fact that my experience with the field since they moved out there hasn't been the best of experiences to say the least. Plus to top all that now my drive to the field is three times longer one way so any problems is inflamed that much more. It’s a little insult to injury type thing here. But I was happy with Q's response which, after reading your post makes me think he is one in power to do something about it. Well right behind his post is a 'you should or you shouldn't'. Well I don't like people telling me what to do after the fact. Remember this wasn't a big deal when it started, it was just a suggestion on information that I received after the weekend was already over with. How is anyone supposed to act if they don't have the information? And how is someone supposed to respond when they are getting criticized for not doing something that wasn't a problem at the time? Then they wanted to start making excuses. At this point I would like to point out that the difference between an excuse and a reason is an excuse is to explain in order to gain forgiveness and a reason is to explain an action. Notice the difference. There age is an excuse; lack of training is a reason. How do you know this? Easy, there are some dang good refs that are young. So if age was a real reason then all young refs would be bad. But it is not worth arguing here. Unfortunately this whole load made me so mad at the field this weekend that I had no desire to go, that and I was broke :xeyed:

Like I said this all started with a suggestion after the fact.

[Mainevent#1]

Sin kidz- whens the next time you all will be at ag?
Jeff, driven.

[Semenelin]

Vagabond, i know what you mean. These refs at AG dont know a thing about reffing a paintball game. I dont even know if they played at high-level competition. They are just there to be "associated" with Pevs, so they "glorify" themselves, and tell others that since they are refs they are good paintball players. They parade around bragging how fast, how good their guns are, but none of them have experience nor the know-how to play or judge paintball games.
So just leave it at that, what they are going to do, it defend themselves with all their might(because thats all they care about) in this forum, act all tough, so they would prove you are wrong.
Most of these refs are posers, i even had the pleasure of playing with these guys. They are bunch of morons, who just like to look good.

[Semenelin]

P8ntballn2 is a moron and idiot on and off the field so dont worry about that.

[Matt H]

Originally posted by Mainevent#1
Sin kidz- whens the next time you all will be at ag?
Jeff, driven.

Sunday(08/03)

[Q THE GURU]

You again? man, please go cheer up and take a break from attacking people around here.. arent you right down the road from us anyway? make the extra effort to come back to PEVS so we can see this great player in person. Oh, by the way- what the heck is that in your signature? are you some kinda goth kid...


I am the night, I am the day, I am the light gone astray

the fear that's in your bones

that is I, I am the taker of souls

shout my name at the heavens and be cast to fire

hold my hands as we roam with the pack

cause evil is our lair

[Semenelin]

What do you mean down the road? I am based 2 states away from VA. Anyway, i just wanted to see how I can rattle you guys here in PUBLIC FORUMS. hahahaha. Cmon people this is a public forum!!! I am just having a little fun with people like you. ;) hahahaha
So just check yourselves people, look how easy you guys get rattled. Be secure about yourselves.

[retartedpaintballer]

"I am just having a little fun with people like you."

well if you had a life you'd be able to have fun other than in a public forum giving people you don't even know **** for talking to each other...... ******

[lopez17]

Vagabond - Yeah...no judging here...you had some issues with the field of late and that's completely understandable. The trouble with writing instead of talking is sometimes it's hard to get a good gauge on someone's tone or infer what they're really trying to say in a limited space. (And not everyone writes as well as you do too so that can be an issue). PM me next time you go out...I'd like to hook up with you at the field.

Vagabond, i know what you mean. These refs at AG dont know a thing about reffing a paintball game. I dont even know if they played at high-level competition.

Actually I've found that the majority of refs, young and old do know quite a bit about reffing games. The fact that they play at a high level is irrelevant and essentially you're stating a fallacy that for them to be good as a ref they need to be good as players. Many of the top NBA or NFL refs never played in the NBA or NFL. Many pro coaches never played at a pro level either. They know the game and are good in other areas. Age is also not a great discriminator of talent. I saw a 12 year old kid last weekend tearing people apart as a walk-on. I've seen a 14 year old ref do a better job than people 10 years older than him. It's all about what you put into it. I'll end this note here since it's obvious you're trolling but I thought it should be posted regardless.

[Arab with a gun]

Not too mention almost half the referees are Nationally ranked PSP players............

[DarkAngel2.1VA]

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