Reasons for FSDO.

[ollie_olsson]

Okay, I know what it is, so no need to explain that.

But I've currently been thinking about FSDO since I've been experiencing it quite a lot lately since I switched to the APE board. But I HIGHLY doubt that the APE board is the reason for my FSDO. I believe it has to do with the fact that when I recently cleaned my gun, I removed my grip frame and saw ALOT of lube lying around the noid in the back regions. How that got there? I have my one theory (i excess lubed a couple of times, and when the bolt returns, it pushed the excess lube back down the little air hole which regulates the movement of the bolt). So I removed all of that, and then I started to get serious FSDO.

At first I would experience it after 5 minutes plus of down time, now it's down to about a minute. VERY annoying as you can most likely tell.

Then I started to ask myself the question, what is FSDO? And the only reasonable answer I could come up with is that air must be leaking out the dump chamber. But it can't be leaking via the bolt guide, 'cause then I would hear it quite clearly. SO, I then jumped to the conclusion that it must be leaking from the noid, in very small amounts.

All of this is probably old news, but I'm tired, and I want to try to find a solution to this elementary problem.

The lube that had accumulated around my noid looked like Hater Sauce. And for me, I don't really see that as being a very lasting and air tight solution in the long run (but is without a doubt sweet on the bolt). So I lightly lubed the oring-thingy under the noid with some DOW 33.

And then I saw on the side of the noid a black dot. Very strange I thought, so I lined it up and saw that that's where the upper grip screw goes in. It had been pushing against it all this time whenever I screwed the grip back on. So I ended up filing off about 2mm to make sure the noid wasn't being touched.

A theory I have for this is that the screw was pushing on the noid just enough for it to allow some air to be leaking out. It doesn't have to be a lot, but just enough.

So my solution is replace the HS around the noid with DOW 33, and file down a grip screw.

I aired up my gun, and it didn't drop off like usual. I didn't have any paint, so I couldn't test it, but i emptied my tank on ~1800 psi and it started to leak most likley from the noid, not sure though. I've heard that that happens when you're low on air, right? Or have I messed something up now?

Another solution I thought of was put a nice thick coating of DOW33 around the base of the noid, and maybe that would keep it even more airtight.

What do YOU think the reasons for FSDO, and your solutions? It cannot be that hard to fix.

Also, if you're getting a lot bounce, make sure that your magnet is still in place. Remove your grip frame from your body, and look for that little silver cylinder above your trigger.

And my quest is pretty inconsitant. Airways are clear, freshly lubed (bolt, LPR, and HPR), fresh batteries, 10ms in Dwell, ~80PSI in LPR. Ideas?

[Physcojosh]

Ok.. Up the Lpr to 90 psi... for one thing.. Any issues with FSDO are due to Air mostly, and hardly Board settings.... In most Cases.. and Most problems with a quest performance is the Middle Bolt Oring.. Cant Stress that enough.

Replace, and Relube Middle Bolt oring..

The Goop around the noid is fine.. it happens to everyones marker... just get a Q-tip and clean out the Crevace with goop.. and put it all back together.. you can Up your Dwell to 12 also may help with anyother problems...

[ghost271]

^^^ What Psyco said ^^^

I loved the long synapsis but in short it is this. The lube on the bolt/o-rings 'stick' if the markers not been shot for awhile. This means that the regular LPR pressure isnt enough to fully cycle a stuck bolt. This is why it is recommended that you up your dwell (opens noid a bit longer- thus releasing more air to unstick bolt), and to give your LPR another 1/4 turn ( to provide a bit more air pressure to cycle the bolt). Also try changing the white bumper with an o-ring. It seems that if lube accumulates there, it acts as a suction to the bolt and can cause a bit of FSDO.

For the most part these should solve any problems you have. With the advent of electronic markers, this is a known issue in most guns (even my Viking until I upped the dwell). The other option is to buy a board with ANTI-FSDO programming. It ups the Dwell a bit more on the first shot to help unstick the bolt.

[HarryBalzak]

Umm? The HPR constantly feeds the bolt is its back position. Leaking air would not cause it. Same with the LPR air being used to cycle the bolt. If there is a leak the regs just replace the air that is slightly leaking. Use thin coats of HATER SAUCE. Don't over lube the bolt. Up your LPR to 90 or 80 with a GM and up your dwell a couple.

[bomb_xero]

actually something simalar has been happening to a quest from one of the refs at my field.

he'll get about 20 shots off and then they will drop off and the only thing that fixes it is to shut the gun off and turn back on so now im curious.

he has checked the regs and they are both good and he is using a w.a.s. board. so if anyone has any ideas cuz i got a w.a.s. board and dont have that issue

[HarryBalzak]

Have him swap tanks with someone.

[ghost271]

actually something simalar has been happening to a quest from one of the refs at my field.

he'll get about 20 shots off and then they will drop off and the only thing that fixes it is to shut the gun off and turn back on so now im curious.

he has checked the regs and they are both good and he is using a w.a.s. board. so if anyone has any ideas cuz i got a w.a.s. board and dont have that issue

That sounds like a tank or On/Off issue more than an electrical problem. Some ASA's will actually depresss the tank pin too far into the bottle and not let enough air out. I had that problem with my old school Shocker when I was running a remote. I would have to turn the On/Off all the way in and then back it out about 1/2 a turn so that the gun wouldnt starve of air.

Also, I would change the battery right off the bat. A low battery will cause all sorts of funky issues with electro guns. 8/10 times it will be the battery if something strange is happening.

[bronc.v2]

Have him swap tanks with someone.

:tup: yep it's a flow issue.

And for FSDO, I haven't found any software that really stops it since it's so arbitrary. Even Tadao, who kind of pioneered anti-FSDO software, is still far from perfect. I just keep my dwell around 12 and keep my LPR around 85-90 psi with tons of hater sauce.

[KMA]

I had FSDO after about 5 min of sitting, and couldn't fix it for over a year of trying... this included calling FEP and walking through it with them.

When I replaced the white bumper disk with a urethane bolt oring it went away. I also used a dremel to modify the white disk which also fixed the problem, but I went back to the urethane oring since it seemed to "feel" a bit better. This simple change completely fixed the FSDO problem in my case (and other's).

[MstrKey]

I don't know anyone who runs a quest reliabley with a dwell under 12. Just from my own experiences. Sure you can set it lower and it'll work fine one day but the next it may not. It depends on a lot of factors. Just keep it up around 12 minimum and watch your troubles disappear.

Oh for the record small leaks will cause problems. Regulators can't actually regulate properly unless their input and output is constant. Leaks create instability and so they won't work as well. Get the spray bottle of soapy water out and do some searching to be safe.

[EmPIrEPaiNTbaLLeR27]

^^^ Yea if I have my dwell lower than 12, I get FSDO. :(

[ollie_olsson]

I had FSDO after about 5 min of sitting, and couldn't fix it for over a year of trying... this included calling FEP and walking through it with them.

When I replaced the white bumper disk with a urethane bolt oring it went away. I also used a dremel to modify the white disk which also fixed the problem, but I went back to the urethane oring since it seemed to "feel" a bit better. This simple change completely fixed the FSDO problem in my case (and other's).

Okay, I've heard a lot about this replacing the whitbe bumper with an oring. Can you tell me how big the oring is supposed to be? Cheers.

Btw, the leaking went away. I hadn't screwed on the noid hard enough, that's it. :rolleyes:

[jd_mattos]

the oring we are all using is a urethane tank oring...

[rinso]

I don't know anyone who runs a quest reliabley with a dwell under 12. Just from my own experiences. Sure you can set it lower and it'll work fine one day but the next it may not. It depends on a lot of factors. Just keep it up around 12 minimum and watch your troubles disappear.

Oh for the record small leaks will cause problems. Regulators can't actually regulate properly unless their input and output is constant. Leaks create instability and so they won't work as well. Get the spray bottle of soapy water out and do some searching to be safe.

I run my dwell at 8 and it runs just fine. My lpr is at about 60-70ish right now (since it's summer, I'd probably have it a bit higher in the winter).

[KMA]

Okay, I've heard a lot about this replacing the whitbe bumper with an oring. Can you tell me how big the oring is supposed to be? Cheers.
I use the same size urethane oring that goes in the middle position on the bolt. As long as it fits, its probably okay.

[MstrKey]

I run my dwell at 8 and it runs just fine. My lpr is at about 60-70ish right now (since it's summer, I'd probably have it a bit higher in the winter).

You made my point for me indirecty. When winter comes your gun will still work fine at 60-70psi on the LPR if you run your dwell higher. LOL. 8 is too low to work well all the time, in any situation. If you're happy with it then stick with it, but as a general rule I wouldn't run it that low.

[rinso]

I've had my Quest for 2 years now (got it in May '05) and I've found that in cold weather, even if I increase my dwell to 12, it won't help as much as just increasing the lpr a bit. So, not trying to be a jerk, but yes, I do run my Quest just fine at a dwell of 8. I have mostly owned spool valve/dump chamber markers and you always need to adjust settings for cold weather as opposed to warm weather (that is, if you want your marker to run at it's best).

[jeffreyjames]

and this is why everyone gives higher parameters for the lpr. higher dwell as being a secondary fix.
im pretty sure a stock bolt lpr of 70-100 is perfectly fine untill you break it in(dwell of 8-12). then between 60 and 80ish after break-in and a varying dwellto suit your needs.
if you have a goldmember you want something lower than 70-80psi on the lpr untill break in.
in both cases... just how low you can run it depends entirely on your particular marker and how well its broken in. just because one person can run at 20 doesnt mean you can. and just because another needs 90 doesnt mean you do as well. you really do have to experiment with YOUR PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL MARKER to find the best settings. maybe you can run a lower lpr with a higher dwell or maybe you can use a higher dwell with a lower lpr. it just depends on what you yourself are looking for.... just like it is with EVERY other gun on the market.

[rinso]

and this is why everyone gives higher parameters for the lpr. higher dwell as being a secondary fix.
im pretty sure a stock bolt lpr of 70-100 is perfectly fine untill you break it in(dwell of 8-12). then between 60 and 80ish after break-in and a varying dwellto suit your needs.
if you have a goldmember you want something lower than 70-80psi on the lpr untill break in.
in both cases... just how low you can run it depends entirely on your particular marker and how well its broken in. just because one person can run at 20 doesnt mean you can. and just because another needs 90 doesnt mean you do as well. you really do have to experiment with YOUR PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL MARKER to find the best settings. maybe you can run a lower lpr with a higher dwell or maybe you can use a higher dwell with a lower lpr. it just depends on what you yourself are looking for.... just like it is with EVERY other gun on the market.

QFT. A very fine point that I had neglected to consider.